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gWorldz
01-02-2017, 10:21 AM
http://i68.tinypic.com/20zutrs.jpg

This thread is for discussing Season 8's unbalanced heroes and reworking their design to fix the problems. Please post with your ideas, as well as, the problem and include why and how your proposed changes can solve the issues.

When posting please try to be concise and use language we can all understand. Don't use this thread to whine and complain, use it instead to contribute to the conversation and help solve the problems ��

Latest Balance Update: http://forums.kobojo.com/showthread.php?15456-19-12-16-BALANCING-CHANGES
Note: Lion League players had their ELO reset back to 1100

[K] BlueSky
01-02-2017, 11:58 AM
Thank you!

Have a nice Season 8, we look forward to read your feedback!

Thanh
01-03-2017, 04:50 AM
- Poison damage is not affected by power up/down.(i.e Nara's skill, part of Uku's skill and Komuel's skill)

- Gween is not affected by power up/down. As she has reduced gauge when leveling up, 1 charge point reduced per 10 or 15% power up could be a solution :-?

- Harron can kill any kind of elephant in one turn (~400 dmg), while no other hero can. He's still a game breaking joke.

- Most rare/epic heroes are easier to kill than common heroes due to being 2 titles. I know that they have good ability and suppose to die fast but sometime I feel it imbalance. Just my opinion.

- Leaving colours being totally random makes the game less strategic and more about luck (for now almost half of the time its one side battle). Even a team of 4 colours heroes has 1 or 2 colours that need to charged first in strategic terms. A solution could be controlling colours: there are no less than 7 and no more than 11 troops per colours on the board at any time :-?

Michael Garde
01-04-2017, 09:13 AM
- Leaving colours being totally random makes the game less strategic and more about luck (for now almost half of the time its one side battle). Even a team of 4 colours heroes has 1 or 2 colours that need to charged first in strategic terms. A solution could be controlling colours: there are no less than 7 and no more than 11 troops per colours on the board at any time :-?

sure some games end up one sided but there is still plenty of strategy to random tiles. Random is the best and only way this will work. Like I try and take out my opponents colours he needs if i can as part of my strategy but with your way there would be no point because those colours would likely just fall back or when attacking you would just keep getting the colours you are using back so you wouldn't even need the whole board because you could just use a section of it and keep getting the colours you need. This would seriously advantage the single colour super teams (there is a blue, yellow and red super team... green still sucks haha) and take a lot of strategy out of the game I'd reckon.

Michael Garde
01-04-2017, 09:38 AM
as for the heroes in my opinion:
something needs to be done about harron... any or all combinations of HP reduced, activation time (rather greatly) increased and/or damage lowered.
Kiit activation needs to be increased
Wakai needs his attack changed a bit, maybe depending whether he is on the top half or bottom half of his side of the board he could attack either the front row or the back row.
Jasser also could have something similar as in whether hes is in the top half or bottom half his side of the board he would attack top corners or bottom corners
GYLE really needs a big fix or scrap him from the game! his war cry should be a permanent part of his ability, and his activation reduced. At the very least some more HP would even help him because as is he is about the worst, most useless hero there is.
Liu could maybe do a bit less damage but over a bigger area, like maybe the rows above and below where he already attacks he could take out the middle two tiles. as it is almost everyone sticks to the side of the board (unless you are a wall builder) because they are by far the safest places to be so his attack is most useless except for taking out some charged tiles, but then you're be better off with squy or kiit for that anyway
Also it's pretty crappy that the two "exlusive" heroes have pretty awesome attack areas to counter the most used spots on the board for heroes (and are the abilities I've wanted all along) ie attacking the sides and pushing heroes back or the attacking the front where most heroes end up somewhere through the battle. Only way most people will get them is by making fake accounts.
Also one idea I keep thinking about but don't know if it would be good or not would be to make the board continuous (for lack of a better word) as in you can go from the right side to the left side as if they were next to each other rather than just stop at the established sides.

Meo
01-04-2017, 07:22 PM
I suppose Harron is staying strong to give newbies a chance? But you really need to increase his gauge so he can't wipe out single tile heroes in one turn. It's so easy to activate him right now and he can take out any double vertical hero instantly. Make him like Karg (a hero that can wipe out any double horizontal tile hero). So he can still wipe out double vertical tile heroes but his gauge makes it a 50/50 chance of him being able to activate again to wipe out single tile heroes. I personally think he should also only hit 2 vertical squares instead of 3.

Gyle's ability (level 6) is 12x8 "activates units around him". 12x8 is his battle cry not his ability. All he does is activate the units around him. Assuming he doesn't fall to the front of the board, that's like 5x8=40 damage. I can cascade better than that in a single turn.

I kinda feel Michael Garde is right about Jasser. Time to make it so there is nowhere safe on the entire board. Have him randomly hit any 2 of the 4 corners BUT need to weaken his attack a bit. I also don't think you should be able to dictate where he hits base on where's he's put cause that's a bit too easy. Make him like Kiit. As it stands right now, most people avoid the back 1/2 of the board cause of Ku-Luo. As such usually Jasser is avoided anyways and I would pick Ku-Luo over Jasser for any constructed team.

Knightified
01-04-2017, 09:31 PM
If Jasser had changes like that his attack would need to be insanely nerfed though.

Meo
01-04-2017, 09:47 PM
I was thinking of making Jasser's attack power 2/3 of what is it. That would make it equivalent to being hit by Kiit.

Knightified
01-04-2017, 10:50 PM
I was thinking of making Jasser's attack power 2/3 of what is it. That would make it equivalent to being hit by Kiit.

That should work pretty well.

Speaking of Kiit, his gauge should really be increased a bit.

Knightified
01-07-2017, 10:33 PM
Gyle is ridiculously nerfed right now. His description doesn't even reflect what he does anymore. He was nerfed to the point where he is more of a liability than a useful hero, and I would rather not even play him.

I suppose he was nerfed do to how powerful he can be when combined with other heroes, but most heroes are like that. The key is balanci the heroes, not nerfing them to the point of being a liability.

In any case, I suggest making Gyle do what his description says he does. Remove his battle cry, make that his actual ability. Considering how high his gauge is it shouldn't be that much of an issue.

Michael Garde
01-08-2017, 01:41 AM
Yep gyle is way to up, Harron is way to op. Isle 2 are ridculous. Now the changes to wang&xiao have made him a bit op, combine him with Liu and your heroes are gone in one swipe and your bored all but wiped clear. I think his activation should have been raised with the new changes at least

Knightified
01-08-2017, 02:07 AM
Yep gyle is way to up, Harron is way to op. Isle 2 are ridculous. Now the changes to wang&xiao have made him a bit op, combine him with Liu and your heroes are gone in one swipe and your bored all but wiped clear. I think his activation should have been raised with the new changes at least

I personally think Wan & Xiao are fine as they are now. Like I said in my Gyle post, some heroes just work very well with others. It's all strategy.

Plus depending on the placement and size of the enemy heroes, a good amount of the time you can't even hit enemy heroes with Liu because they slide down after Wan & Xiao hit them.

Michael Garde
01-08-2017, 03:08 AM
huh? after wan&xiao use there attack now heroes are left in the dead centre of the board. follow up with liu and your screwed. yeah I get the whole strategy of combining heroes but man that those two can wipe out all heroes at the beginning of a turn, then they have 3 cracks at ya with pretty much a clear board... its not gunna be much fun when you just get wiped out a lot like that

Knightified
01-08-2017, 04:36 AM
The only person to use Wan & Xiao in a structured team (that I've seen so far at least) is myself and I don't even use Liu haha. I find Erys to be much more effective.

Michael Garde
01-08-2017, 05:15 PM
Yeah erys would be effective. You could have all 3 with say more or Kishu and you'd be unstoppable. I've came across a lot using wang&xiao now it's been powered up and I don't think I even played against you

Thanh
01-09-2017, 03:07 AM
I just thought of another way to justify Harron, by limit his position to only the front line, and can attack only 2 or 3 tittles of enemy front lines (like below). Honestly I always annoy how his "claw attack" kill heroes from 6 tittles away, "claw" should be a melee attack >.>. This way makes him more strategic (and logical lol) imo. And if he still deals dmg to 3 tittle his gauge and dmg should be reconsider too.

x x x x x x
x x x x x x
x x x x x x
o o o o o o
o o o o o o
o o o o o o (attack titles correspond to his position)

h h h h h h (haron posible position)
x x x x x x
x x x x x x
x x x x x x
x x x x x x
x x x x x x

Meo
01-10-2017, 04:20 AM
Today I was playing and just thought of a way to make Wakai and Jasser relevant again without actually changing them at all.

Rather at the current moment Arpa everyone's favourite hero killer Harron will never be hit by Jasser/Wakai because of the way their attack is position. Even Souhel will NEVER be hit by Wakai. Heroes should be change to follow the Erys layout of attack.

Please compare Harron:

x x x x x x
x x x x x x
x x x x x x
o o o o o o
o o o o o o
o o o o o o
x x x x x x
x x x x x x
x x x x x x
h h h h h h
x x x x x x
x x x x x x


now Erys:

x x x x x x
x x x x x x
x x x x x x
o o o o o o
o o o o o o
o o o o o o
x x x x x x
x x x x x x
x x x x x x
x x x x x x
e e e e e e
e e e e e e

Harron/Arpa/Souhel should be changed so if they want to hit the opponent's front row (the row closest to the center) they need to put their hero in the back row. Example:

x x x x x x
x x x x x x
x x x x x x
o o o o o o
o o o o o o
o o o o o o
x x x x x x
x x x x x x
x x x x x x
x x x x x x
x x x x x x
h h h h h h

I hope that makes sense. It makes it so Harron is a bit more balance as well. Do you kill the opponent's hero or do you waste a move to avoid a Jasser/Wakai hit. If you avoid it would your opponent be able to hit you causing you to slide to the front row?

NickWilde
01-10-2017, 02:05 PM
Kishu should be nerfed, increasing the activation cost. Now seems that it is very easy to deal massive damage (~300 or more) in a single turn only with her. She charges so quickly that can active in second turn when the opposite is hard to gain enough energy for those hero who can dealt with her.

Hembala needs buff. For example, his skill will subtract 1 point from all the enemies' action point, which makes him not likely to be killed as soon as his turn ends.

Rod's skill seems foolish....... the only use of it is blocking the way on both battle field and annoying the players. If only launches one bomb to enemy's field and increases the hp of the bomb, I think he would be much more useful.

Gyle is just a waste of its painting. Harron is so unreasonable. Compared with Styr, Kane seems totally useless.

Baka
01-13-2017, 09:07 AM
Kishu should be nerfed, increasing the activation cost. Now seems that it is very easy to deal massive damage (~300 or more) in a single turn only with her. She charges so quickly that can active in second turn when the opposite is hard to gain enough energy for those hero who can dealt with her.

Hembala needs buff. For example, his skill will subtract 1 point from all the enemies' action point, which makes him not likely to be killed as soon as his turn ends.

Rod's skill seems foolish....... the only use of it is blocking the way on both battle field and annoying the players. If only launches one bomb to enemy's field and increases the hp of the bomb, I think he would be much more useful.

Gyle is just a waste of its painting. Harron is so unreasonable. Compared with Styr, Kane seems totally useless.


Lol, they just buff Kishu.

Meo
01-13-2017, 10:29 AM
Lol, they just buff Kishu.

How so? I thought she was the same...

Baka
01-13-2017, 12:04 PM
How so? I thought she was the same...

In previous version, her death rate only increases activation speed of active hero, not hero on the board.

NickWilde
01-13-2017, 04:50 PM
Lol, they just buff Kishu.

Just a bug fix......╮(╯▽╰)╭

Knightified
01-14-2017, 02:25 AM
Marrar's ability should be changed to always do damage to enemy heroes with a chance to freeze them, and as far as enemy troops go it's 50/50 whether they're destroyed or frozen.

Meo
01-14-2017, 02:38 AM
Marrar's ability should be changed to always do damage to enemy heroes with a chance to freeze them, and as far as enemy troops go it's 50/50 whether they're destroyed or frozen.

You mean Missar? I think Missar is OK the way he is. If not, he's just Konil (with Gwenn's freezing ability on tiles). He's rare and both Konil and Gwenn are epic.

BTW I think he might have a bug...but I'll pay closer attention next time to confirm.

Maarrar is the super healing elephant that heals the row adjacent to him.

Knightified
01-14-2017, 02:51 AM
You mean Missar?

Whoops yeah I meant Missar I always mix their names up haha.

Knightified
01-14-2017, 07:17 PM
Is Konil supposed to decrease activation speed of all heroes on death?

Cause the death rattle description says it decreased "targeted heroes" so I would assume that means whatever heroes were in it's line of fire.

gWorldz
01-14-2017, 09:52 PM
Is Konil supposed to decrease activation speed of all heroes on death?

Cause the death rattle description says it decreased "targeted heroes" so I would assume that means whatever heroes were in it's line of fire.

I have always assumed it meant heroes currently Frozen by Konil so if you kill Konil on turn with no heroes frozen by him you avoid the death rattle ��

In other words its the freezing that makes them targeted o.O

Knightified
01-14-2017, 11:21 PM
I have always assumed it meant heroes currently Frozen by Konil so if you kill Konil on turn with no heroes frozen by him you avoid the death rattle ��

In other words its the freezing that makes them targeted o.O

Well for me whenever I kill a Konil it decreases activation speed of all my played heroes if I remember right, whether they're in his line of fire or not.

Emzata
01-15-2017, 09:45 AM
Hi,
I think Harron is not balanced hero.
He have 3x140 dmg(on 8lvl),have much life and he activate on 40 red's ^^. In one turn he activate 3 times and possiblity kill 2-3 heroes :( thats not good for opposite players i think.Maybe in new balanced heroes you fixid this like increaced activation,decreaced life or dmg ^^.
Tnx for attention and sorry for my english ! Regards

NickWilde
01-15-2017, 11:45 AM
Seems everyone acknowledges that Harron needs nerf.

Skunkix
01-16-2017, 03:35 AM
harron its pseudo usless after the oneshot. Its just like Karg, they are not op, they are really situational.

Michael Garde
01-16-2017, 04:32 AM
harron its pseudo usless after the oneshot. Its just like Karg, they are not op, they are really situational.

I disagree. With his high hp he can easily chase heroes around the board and often does. Karg to is somewhat balanced but harron is op. He takes up one tile, has high hp, low activation, high attack and can hit 3 tiles vertically.

Skunkix
01-16-2017, 04:58 AM
What hero could be worth enought to waste more than 3 movement turns to get it killed with harron? Either the enemy have 1harron and 3 dummies or either the hero harron is about to kill is useless enough to even make a little difference after turns wasted on his chase.

Michael Garde
01-16-2017, 05:50 AM
Unless heroes are in the 4 corners then it doesn't usually take many turns to get him where he needs to be to take out more heroes and it is definitely worth it if your taking out the other players ways of scoring big points or wiping out your heroes. If you think karg is balanced then in comparison harron is way op, that's how I look at it

Knightified
01-16-2017, 05:56 AM
You can't really compare Karg to Harron considering Harron is more poweful in essentially every aspect.

More HP, single tile, larger attack space, less gauge, etc.

smilesnow
01-16-2017, 07:12 AM
I always think that Harron and Karg, their characteristics should be exchanged with each other.

Thanh
01-16-2017, 08:19 AM
harron its pseudo usless after the oneshot. Its just like Karg, they are not op, they are really situational.
To see him OP or not, let's compare him to other assassin class heroes.
But let's not compare Harron to kawaii and jasser since they are trash...
Also let's not compare Harron to Karg since Karg is just a fail version of Harron...

How about Falkar ? How many heroes Falkar can kill in a battle? 1? 2? Most of the time it's 1, sometimes 2 if there's another assassin in the team, a battle where Falkar stands there and shoot over and over again is a gg already. Not to mention his gauge is 67, which needs 7 yellow titles. Can he kill a 440 HP target in one turn like Harron? No... He only shoots lowest HP ones.
So if he can kill 2 heroes before he die (remember you lose 200hp when he's dead), he can get even with Harron (Harron does not die, he's immoral) but hey, he's an epic hero and Harron is common.

Another important thing is the feeling Harron bring. Like, I bring out a hero, you bring out the lion, bam, gg, now we stare at each other in a 3v3 battle. It's the feel where you know there's nothing but death awaits your hero there on the board lol.

I should stop my nonsense post though. Kobojo doesn't care about Harron, he's been there for months. They're more focus on new heroes and promotion. Actually they're better at it. Each gameplay update was quite a mess (kane, Roku, Rey, Harron; random pvp is more like promotion than a mess) , if they nerf Harron might be he will be nerfed to hell like Roku. It seems they lack of human resources or something. I don't know, their reaction speed and balance fix is kinda slow and a bit childish :s

Meo
01-17-2017, 12:18 AM
So according to the official announcement:

Harron will get a 31% health decrease and 10% attack decrease...

Michael Garde
01-17-2017, 04:20 AM
So according to the official announcement:

Harron will get a 31% health decrease and 10% attack decrease...

yeh i noticed that this morning. he'll still be effective but this might even him out a bit. I would have liked his activation increased a little tho

Michael Garde
01-17-2017, 04:23 AM
I always think that Harron and Karg, their characteristics should be exchanged with each other.

yeah I was thinking along those lines as well those 2 and arpa are all sort of a combination of each other with Harron being much stronger and Karg somewhat balanced and arpa I think still a little weak, tho I havent levelled him up much and dont take much notice of it

[K] BlueSky
01-17-2017, 09:17 AM
Thank you all for this amazing Arena Season and your precious feedback :)

The discussion for Season 9 continues here (http://forums.kobojo.com/showthread.php?15700-Live-Balance-Discussion-Season-9)!