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gWorldz
02-27-2017, 08:23 PM
http://i68.tinypic.com/20zutrs.jpg

This thread is for discussing Season 12's unbalanced heroes and reworking their design to fix the problems. Please post with your ideas, as well as, the problem and include why and how your proposed changes can solve the issues.

When posting please try to be concise and use language we can all understand. Don't use this thread to whine and complain, use it instead to contribute to the conversation and help solve the problems ;)


February 27, 2017

Latest Balance Update: http://forums.kobojo.com/showthread.php?15974-27-02-17-BALANCING-CHANGES&p=67861&viewfull=1#post67861

Note: Lion League players always have their ELO reset back to 1100 at the end of each season.

Sorry for the delay o.O

Meo
02-27-2017, 10:50 PM
I love Banka but he's way OP now. I think he was fine before.

But now he's basically doing double Noren damage when he dies. And you might have trouble charging Noren twice but activating Banka a couple of tiles and waiting for him to die is easy.

smilesnow
02-28-2017, 01:34 AM
Banka is literally cannon now. So does Waru. As a common card, he now throws tons of damage.

Knightified
02-28-2017, 02:39 AM
Banka is literally cannon now. So does Waru. As a common card, he now throws tons of damage.

Waru is pretty balanced now imo.

Banka I haven't tested out yet.

Michael Garde
02-28-2017, 05:12 AM
waru is still hitting my own heroes 75% of the time... I find hes great to bring out early but too risky if you have your other heroes out...
I think banka is pretty close to getting balanced, I need him at a higher level to really judge tho but the fact he has to die to do his damage, therefore costing your opponent a decent chunk of their health as well, and its only one off attack that can vary depending on luck of tiles and how long he is left on the board. In regards to comparing him to noren for the damage noren does he isn't too hard to charge twice, people usually just take him out asap plus noren can attack heroes without being directly in front of them which is the way a lot deal their damage.

Estefan Rodriguez
02-28-2017, 05:22 AM
i really HATE to say this..even though i detest monkeys in any way...haru actually won me a pvp battle...i have nothing else to say <.<

Baka
02-28-2017, 08:06 AM
Wan&Xiao battercry is bug now, it is not only remove poison eff, but also remove buff of allied heros like Mirga, Tai...

[K] BlueSky
02-28-2017, 10:49 AM
Wan&Xiao battercry is bug now, it is not only remove poison eff, but also remove buff of allied heros like Mirga, Tai...

I just tried to reproduce this issue, without any success.
Wan&Xio didn't remove the buffs of the Taļ and Mirga in my team.

If you stumble on this issue again, can you please let us know which situation it occured in?

Meo
02-28-2017, 05:25 PM
Waru is balance now I think.

He's a remarkable attacker for common with a medium gauge. But the trouble is...you need to play him first, when he's alone by himself or with some elephant with a tank life. If you play him with Komeul or even Floyd if he doesn't return to deck...you're kinda in trouble.

I have a level 6 Banka...he is +24% (161x2), which means the moment he is summoned he is doing 199x2 for his death rattle. He's blasting through everything and hitting opponent's wall directly unless there's a Pyk, some insane Mori/Maarrar buff tiles. His life is 217. If I am lucky enough to get him in random, I am regularly finishing off people by hitting 500+HP damage.

ProudSpud
03-01-2017, 12:22 AM
I just got Banka, but I have to agree she is dealing tons of damage upon death. I can't say this is wrong though. She only deals damage after dying, and if she is frozen she deals none.

I got lucky in a random battle and got Gwen against a high level Banka (+20% or around that amount). She froze Banka, and I finished her off in the same turn by charging Mandra twice, thus dealing no damage at all. Of course, in random this was lucky, and Gwen is not one of my favorites.

Knightified
03-01-2017, 01:15 AM
I've had some more time to test out Banka now, and I do find that he can be quite a formidable opponent. However, there are still a lot of ways to counter him or kill him quickly so I think he's balanced.

Knightified
03-01-2017, 01:17 AM
Floyd: Should deal damage to each square in a row, not just heroes. This would make Floyd a much more formidable hero and a more popular choice when designing teams. Heroes like Konil do this, so I don't see why a fellow 'Epic' hero shouldn't follow this pattern.

Meo
03-01-2017, 05:40 PM
I think Floyd is fine. Floyd has the advantage of disappearing and can be repositioned. Konil is a one hit wonder epic. He kills a Kishu and then he's just waiting to die.

Level 3 Floyd does 109 damage
Level 5 Konil does 52-100 (x 2 for the veritical heroes)

Floyd is actually superior to Konil in terms of attack power. At level 5 it would do maybe 129 damage? That's about slightly lower than Konil's average of 74x2=148 but against single tile heroes, it's vastly superior.

Michael Garde
03-03-2017, 01:26 AM
now that waru doesn't hit himself his health boost battlecry seems a bit excessive. I dont think he is quite op but what i gather is that his battle cry was there to balance out the fact he could hit himself so without that ability imo his health just be what it is without the battle cry.

Knightified
03-03-2017, 01:32 AM
now that waru doesn't hit himself his health boost battlecry seems a bit excessive. I dont think he is quite op but what i gather is that his battle cry was there to balance out the fact he could hit himself so without that ability imo his health just be what it is without the battle cry.

Nah, the extra health is needed. Otherwise he is much too easy to kill.

Michael Garde
03-03-2017, 02:40 AM
with the amount of damage he deals he should be easy to kill, as most people know now to just use him without any other of their heroes on the board hes pretty damn strong especially with his low charge amount...
at the very least if not keep his health low than his health should be what it is but not added on as a battle cry so it at least comes off the players health...
comared to say karg who now has the health battlecry. karg is destructive but a one hit wonder. Waru will demolish you team in no time if you cant take him out and the only reason i figured he had that war cry to start with was to balance out the fact he would hit himself aswell.

ProudSpud
03-03-2017, 03:54 AM
with the amount of damage he deals he should be easy to kill, as most people know now to just use him without any other of their heroes on the board hes pretty damn strong especially with his low charge amount...
at the very least if not keep his health low than his health should be what it is but not added on as a battle cry so it at least comes off the players health...
comared to say karg who now has the health battlecry. karg is destructive but a one hit wonder. Waru will demolish you team in no time if you cant take him out and the only reason i figured he had that war cry to start with was to balance out the fact he would hit himself aswell.

I agree Waru's health shouldn't be added through a battlecry. He does deal a good amount of damage and can wipe out an entire enemy team without much recoil to the commander. I have used this against healer teams that can't really deal direct damage to him, thus he can be activated enough times to kill them all.

On the other hand, Floyd seems fine to me. He deals a decent amount of damage and has the chance to go back and be replaced in front of a different hero. He would be too strong if he dealt the same amount of damage to every tile in the column in front of him.

Knightified
03-03-2017, 05:57 AM
with the amount of damage he deals he should be easy to kill, as most people know now to just use him without any other of their heroes on the board hes pretty damn strong especially with his low charge amount...
at the very least if not keep his health low than his health should be what it is but not added on as a battle cry so it at least comes off the players health...
comared to say karg who now has the health battlecry. karg is destructive but a one hit wonder. Waru will demolish you team in no time if you cant take him out and the only reason i figured he had that war cry to start with was to balance out the fact he would hit himself aswell.

Okay I can agree with the battlecry being removed and just added to his normal health. More punishment if he dies. But the fact that he can hit ally heroes really limits him in terms of effectiveness, especially if it's a newbie player who doesn't know how to play him effectively.

Michael Garde
03-03-2017, 06:32 AM
yeah thats it...
but really once someone has used him once or twice and taken out their own team with him they know to lead with him and basically just use him til he gets wiped out, well that's what I do and thats what I've seen most that use him do. He's awesome when your opponent doesn't have a hero that deals damage directly to enemy heroes

Meo
03-03-2017, 08:45 AM
I agree with Knighty, maybe increase his health.

He's not really OP even with his battlecry, cause if you get your gauge for a healer/Komeul full, you're in a tough spot. Using them and Waru might take them out. An opponent's Waru helped me weaken his entire team enough for Shura to finish them off. But seeing how he's a "common" hero he's pretty strong

Michael Garde
03-03-2017, 12:20 PM
i never said he was op but he is strong for a common if hes used without any other heroes on the board
... i just dont see the sense in his battle cry when compared to the other heroes with the same type of battle cry. Only sense it made was when he could hit himself but thats no more

Knightified
03-03-2017, 06:48 PM
i never said he was op but he is strong for a common if hes used without any other heroes on the board
... i just dont see the sense in his battle cry when compared to the other heroes with the same type of battle cry. Only sense it made was when he could hit himself but thats no more

So basically to sum everyone's thoughts up:

Waru's battlecry should be removed and just applied to his normal health so it's more of a punishment if he dies.

Michael Garde
03-03-2017, 09:00 PM
So basically to sum everyone's thoughts up:

Waru's battlecry should be removed and just applied to his normal health so it's more of a punishment if he dies.

yep thats it

Jason Tek Chun Sheng
03-04-2017, 06:30 AM
His Battlecry makes him too OP as a support type card, increasing the activation speed until the end of the round, perhaps make the Battlecry last only for one turn

smilesnow
03-04-2017, 06:41 AM
I think Tai is ok since his battlecry is the exact reason for him to be unique. His healing power has already been decreased a lot.

Jason Tek Chun Sheng
03-04-2017, 09:57 AM
I think Tai is ok since his battlecry is the exact reason for him to be unique. His healing power has already been decreased a lot.

Gotta know that he also increases resistance to allied heroes as well

Knightified
03-04-2017, 11:07 AM
Tai is fine. Like smile said, he has already been nerfed immensely.

Skunkix
03-04-2017, 07:08 PM
Now tai must be one of the most balanced heroes.

Ravandel
03-04-2017, 07:53 PM
I personally think Tai need a bit buffing :P Compared to his older version back in Blue Wall constructed deck he isn't any special now.

Knightified
03-04-2017, 11:26 PM
I personally think Tai need a bit buffing :P Compared to his older version back in Blue Wall constructed deck he isn't any special now.

All hail Asaro and Ned hitting through resistance.

ProudSpud
03-05-2017, 03:20 AM
I just acquired Sarkamin and he's all powerful and stuff, but... Is there a way to reduce his gauge? Like lowering the damage he deals, or the amount he heals so his gauge isn't 120. This is a fair amount for what he does, but I wouldn't mind his power being decreased for his gauge to be a bit lower.

As far as I know (at level 24), he's the hero with the highest gauge.

Meo
03-05-2017, 05:25 AM
For what Sarkamin does, I think his gauge is fair.

Lowering his power would mean lower his random Chasqa-like bite isn't exactly strong and his resurrected heroes has like 40HP. IMO, only way to "lower his power" would be limit the amount of heroes resurrected. But then he wouldn't be legendary.

smilesnow
03-06-2017, 04:31 AM
What Hembala's warcry really does differs from his ability description. So either one of them needs to be fixed. The lion's warcry now affects all your opponent's army, whether placed or not. Every card gets 15 energy drained and their recharge speed is increased. The lion has already had increased hp and damage. He is the most powerful legendary card now. His full control over the battlefield makes him quite easier to strike two or more times, which would leave your opponent's deck a candle in the wind.

Knightified
03-06-2017, 05:08 AM
What Hembala's warcry really does differs from his ability description. So either one of them needs to be fixed. The lion's warcry now affects all your opponent's army, whether placed or not. Every card gets 15 energy drained and their recharge speed is increased. The lion has already had increased hp and damage. He is the most powerful legendary card now. His full control over the battlefield makes him quite easier to strike two or more times, which would leave your opponent's deck a candle in the wind.

I'd say his gauge needs to be increased to ~85

smilesnow
03-06-2017, 07:17 AM
I'd say his gauge needs to be increased to ~85It's a possible solution;)

ProudSpud
03-07-2017, 01:25 AM
Hembala seems more like a legendary now, but I agree he might need a higher gauge. At least higher enough to avoid double activation per turn.

Knightified
03-07-2017, 02:11 AM
Tali: When she dies and death rattle is activated, her HP is not deducted from commander health.

Basically, the current system is when Tali dies her HP is deducted from commander HP like any other hero. However, if she is "revived" by her death rattle with like ~40-80 health, that's just another easy kill for the enemy resulting in the commander HP taking 2 Tali deaths. It's counterproductive, and certainly doesn't seem like a very epic-like hero.

I think if the death rattle activates it won't deduct from commander's HP till Tali dies again.

Thoughts?

Meo
03-07-2017, 03:12 AM
No.

1. Because if you don't have Komeul/Yar/Hembala/Sarkamin, your enemy can use Tali once and when it is respawn not use it again. She's like a hero that does damage but doesn't suffer any consequence.

2. Plus her HP is really low. Cipai and her could be besties.

Does she respawn limitlessly? I don't have her so I don't know

NickWilde
03-07-2017, 04:20 AM
Hembala is fine I think, even actives twice in a turn, 170 damage can kill no one except THE rabbit. And he is still easy to be killed by ANY heroes aiming at dealing dmg to heroes.
Kishu’s gauge needs increase ~75, because each time her skill will give u a advantage of (8~10)*36, and a such useful die effect, with only 65 gauge, personally I think she is more a Legendary than Hembala.

Meo
03-07-2017, 07:29 AM
Hembala is pretty deadly actually (of course it depends on what hero your enemy has and if you get enough yellow) but it's not hard to activate him 4 times in 2 turns and kill every single hero.

Also 2 times activation you can kill Floyd, Komeul, Waru, Pyk, Cipai, Sarkarmin (Level 1), Saru, Yars (if that doesn't kill him, self poison will kill him in one go), (maybe Nara)

I think his battle cry is buggy, mine says -19% activation but if you match 3 which usually gives you +15 gauge, my opponent is getting +6 gauge that's like a -60% activation.

Knightified
03-07-2017, 01:48 PM
No.

1. Because if you don't have Komeul/Yar/Hembala/Sarkamin, your enemy can use Tali once and when it is respawn not use it again. She's like a hero that does damage but doesn't suffer any consequence.

2. Plus her HP is really low. Cipai and her could be besties.

Does she respawn limitlessly? I don't have her so I don't know

Only respawns once with like half health.

Skunkix
03-07-2017, 06:55 PM
On my testst tali respawn infinite times

Michael Garde
03-07-2017, 09:59 PM
Hembala is pretty deadly actually (of course it depends on what hero your enemy has and if you get enough yellow) but it's not hard to activate him 4 times in 2 turns and kill every single hero.

Also 2 times activation you can kill Floyd, Komeul, Waru, Pyk, Cipai, Sarkarmin (Level 1), Saru, Yars (if that doesn't kill him, self poison will kill him in one go), (maybe Nara)

I think his battle cry is buggy, mine says -19% activation but if you match 3 which usually gives you +15 gauge, my opponent is getting +6 gauge that's like a -60% activation.

easy to activate 4 times a turn? whaaaat? never done it, never seen it done.... 3 times is lucky.. 2 times is kinda standard and tho he'll kill the low health heroes you mentioned they are all low health because they are all really strong in their own rights hence the balance of them having low health...

Knightified
03-07-2017, 09:59 PM
On my testst tali respawn infinite times

Hmmm... upon further testing it seems you are correct. Although I could have sworn my Tali died forever even when she wasn't frozen. Nevermind my earlier proposal then.

Meo
03-07-2017, 11:51 PM
easy to activate 4 times a turn? whaaaat? never done it, never seen it done.... 3 times is lucky.. 2 times is kinda standard and tho he'll kill the low health heroes you mentioned they are all low health because they are all really strong in their own rights hence the balance of them having low health...

4 times in TWO turns.

Michael Garde
03-08-2017, 03:10 AM
4 times in TWO turns.

oooooh sry about that...
my hembala nearly always gets taken out after the turn i use it

smilesnow
03-08-2017, 04:49 AM
Hembala is pretty deadly actually (of course it depends on what hero your enemy has and if you get enough yellow) but it's not hard to activate him 4 times in 2 turns and kill every single hero.

Also 2 times activation you can kill Floyd, Komeul, Waru, Pyk, Cipai, Sarkarmin (Level 1), Saru, Yars (if that doesn't kill him, self poison will kill him in one go), (maybe Nara)

I think his battle cry is buggy, mine says -19% activation but if you match 3 which usually gives you +15 gauge, my opponent is getting +6 gauge that's like a -60% activation.

That's because Hembala first drains 15 energy away from every one of your opponent's deck and then applies "increasing recharge speed" to them all. This is exactly what I am trying to point out. Not only those heroes on board are affected, but the entire deck. You can't counter the lion especially in random battle.

Meo
03-08-2017, 05:16 AM
oooooh sry about that...
my hembala nearly always gets taken out after the turn i use it

I always have such a hard time taking him out when my opponent plays him. You need to have a Karg laying in wait.


That's because Hembala first drains 15 energy away from every one of your opponent's deck and then applies "increasing recharge speed" to them all. This is exactly what I am trying to point out. Not only those heroes on board are affected, but the entire deck. You can't counter the lion especially in random battle.

I know he drains 15 first but if his ability is -19% activation, if I do a match of of 3, I should have +12 added to back to the gauge so I'm only 3 away from full gauge again. It should not be +6.

Knightified
03-08-2017, 02:33 PM
Depends on the level of enemy Hembala. Higher level, more drain of activation speed. Or at least that's my understanding of it.

Michael Garde
03-08-2017, 10:34 PM
Depends on the level of enemy Hembala. Higher level, more drain of activation speed. Or at least that's my understanding of it.

lvl 3 hembala is 19%. It's his war cry so it won't change

smilesnow
03-09-2017, 04:23 AM
lvl 3 hembala is 19%. It's his war cry so it won't change
My lv 4 Hembala says 20%. So the power of the warcry does increase. Besides, think about "provide some life" type of war cry, like Cipai, pyke , Waru, etc. They all gain power by leveling up.

Michael Garde
03-09-2017, 06:37 PM
My lv 4 Hembala says 20%. So the power of the warcry does increase. Besides, think about "provide some life" type of war cry, like Cipai, pyke , Waru, etc. They all gain power by leveling up.
I stand corrected than and I didn't think those other heroes added life increased either but I haven't taken much notice of them

smilesnow
03-10-2017, 04:51 AM
I stand corrected than and I didn't think those other heroes added life increased either but I haven't taken much notice of them

Surely they added more hp at higher levels.

Jason Tek Chun Sheng
03-10-2017, 04:10 PM
This Legendary card is a no doubt nerf, if you comoare him to Drall, he is twice as powerful and has less charge gauge compared to Drall, what's more Drall is an Epic, the rarity before Legendary so that means that is quite unfair to give a Legendary godlike stats while giving an epic bad stats that is weaker than a Legendary by 100%

Knightified
03-10-2017, 04:46 PM
I think Noren is completely balanced currently. He does an adequate amount of damage that is split into two different lines. Pyk counters him, Saru counters him, any hero that can buff troops somewhat counters him. Plus he's not too difficult to target if you have a killer hero. And it's not like you can activate him twice in one turn unless you get extremely lucky with reds.

Also for future notice we have a thread for balancing every season, here is this season's thread: http://forums.kobojo.com/showthread.php?15998-Live-Balance-Discussion-Season-12

Don't bother reposting though, I'm sure Chem will move this thread into the one I just posted soon enough.

Estefan Rodriguez
03-10-2017, 05:40 PM
it takes forever for his gauge to get up unless your incredibly lucky with reds, or unless you take out Tai/Mirga or Kishu dies

Meo
03-10-2017, 07:42 PM
Either way Hembala is pretty OP now (in random). Him and Tai could easily wipe out all your heroes.

Meo
03-10-2017, 07:48 PM
This Legendary card is a no doubt nerf, if you comoare him to Drall, he is twice as powerful and has less charge gauge compared to Drall, what's more Drall is an Epic, the rarity before Legendary so that means that is quite unfair to give a Legendary godlike stats while giving an epic bad stats that is weaker than a Legendary by 100%

I think it depends on your hero level.

Level 5 Drall = 267
Level 3 Noren = 145*2 = 290

The different is hardly noticable and the gauge difference is only 2 (100 v. 98 )

Because Drall does a single hit instead of two his damage when it hits the wall will make their attacks about equivalent because direct damage is 20% stronger.

smilesnow
03-11-2017, 04:09 AM
If I remember correctly, Noren has already been weakened in early stages. Not far from the beginning of this game. At that time the Bull had more health and damage. He is fine now.

Jason Tek Chun Sheng
03-11-2017, 06:53 AM
I think Noren is completely balanced currently. He does an adequate amount of damage that is split into two different lines. Pyk counters him, Saru counters him, any hero that can buff troops somewhat counters him. Plus he's not too difficult to target if you have a killer hero. And it's not like you can activate him twice in one turn unless you get extremely lucky with reds.

Also for future notice we have a thread for balancing every season, here is this season's thread: http://forums.kobojo.com/showthread.php?15998-Live-Balance-Discussion-Season-12

Don't bother reposting though, I'm sure Chem will move this thread into the one I just posted soon enough.

I don't know how does Buffers even counters Noren though

Meo
03-11-2017, 11:35 AM
I don't know how does Buffers even counters Noren though

All points loss is based on the tile's base unit and not buffed unit.

An example would be if you had Level 10 Mori +29 and Level 10 Marrar +47. If you stacked their healing it would be (Base of 5+29+47=81). The tiles themselves are still worth only 5 points but they require 81 damage to destroy. So if Noren's attack was 145 it would do maximum (145-81=)64+5 damage. Extra 20%(?) for whatever remaining attack that reaches the enemy wall.

The amount of points (HP) that Noren attack would take is less than 50% of the damage he does.

gWorldz
03-13-2017, 10:37 AM
Please continue this discussion in the Season 13 Live Blanace Discussion (http://forums.kobojo.com/showthread.php?16079-Live-Balance-Discussion-Season-13) thread and thank you for your participation :D