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gWorldz
03-13-2017, 10:33 AM
http://i68.tinypic.com/20zutrs.jpg

This thread is for discussing Season 13's unbalanced heroes and reworking their design to fix the problems. Please post with your ideas, as well as, the problem and include why and how your proposed changes can solve the issues.

When posting please try to be concise and use language we can all understand. Don't use this thread to whine and complain, use it instead to contribute to the conversation and help solve the problems ;)


February 27, 2017

Latest Balance Update: http://forums.kobojo.com/showthread.php?15974-27-02-17-BALANCING-CHANGES&p=67861&viewfull=1#post67861

Note: Lion and Phoenix League players always have their ELO reset back to 1100 at the end of each season.

Knightified
03-14-2017, 12:54 AM
(Main change for Hembala discussed in last season's thread)

Hembala's gauge needs to be significantly increased.

Knightified
03-14-2017, 01:14 AM
What does everyone think about limiting how long Kishu / Konil death rattle last for?

I think it's much more balanced if the death rattle only lasts 2 turns rather than forever.

gWorldz
03-14-2017, 04:22 AM
Here's some changes I've had rolling around in my head for a few seasons that I think might *balance* heroes o.O


Borg
+2 to buff/heal/damage

Its a minor change and truly balances him compared to the other green healers, making him a choice for buff/heal/damage players instead of a last resort o.O

Hembala
Gauge to 89
---OR---
Gauge to 75
- no longer reduces activation gauge of targeted heroes o.O

He's greatly overused in arena at the moment and dominates the matches. In constructed it comes down to whoever can drop him first and he is devastating, shutting down almost all offensive retaliations. Whether he kills before heroes get in play or kills when they do get in play because they have no health. His OPness is very apparent, if you don't agree spend a couple hours in arena, its no fun for anyone :\

Missar
Gauge to 65
---OR---
Lower health slightly and make him work like Konil

We all been saying this for several seasons, Missar just needs a little love ;-)

Arpa
Gauge to 72
---OR---
+10% damage

He's not really all that bad but he does need a minor tweak to really make him feel like an epic. Right now we do our best to make him work but no one really wants to have him on their team o.O

Komeul
Gauge to 50

He's almost right just needs a minor adjustment to balance him and make him great instead of OP ;-)

Waru
+20% to War Cry

He can really be a mess, I would like changes made to prevent him from targeting allied heroes but friends said he'd be OP with that change and I think I agree with them. The only thing I think that might make it work would be if when he targets allied heroes they receive an effect lice freezing or fire instead of direct damage ... in truth I would enjoy his bombs having effects added but think that's OP too, he does need a minor change to make him more appealing though and that's why I opt for the war cry increase ;-)

Tali
Gauge to 40
---OR---
Double the damage

The concept and design of Tali is great but she is easily the worst hero in the game at the moment. Compared to similar hero concepts she falls way below par and desperately needs some love applied. The suggestions for her useful and slightly more appealing but I fell she would need an additional adjustment with either tweak I'm just not sure what would be needed at this time. Another idea for her could be adding a boost to her ability, similar to how Banka boosts himself, let Tali boosts herself when she uses her ability or let her debuff targeted heroes like Saru's ability.

Just some ideas, let me know what you think, what you agree or disagree with and what you feel I may have missed --'

Knightified
03-14-2017, 04:30 AM
@Waru section

The war cry should be removed. His main health should just have the war cry added into it. I find Waru to be extremely OP when played correctly and this would result in a more punishing death.

gWorldz
03-14-2017, 04:41 AM
@Waru section

The war cry should be removed. His main health should just have the war cry added into it. I find Waru to be extremely OP when played correctly and this would result in a more punishing death.
I admit when played correctly Waru can be a major pain but his current version isn't really wanted on most teams, only Banka teams benefit and even then his uses are limited. The reason the bonus health is in War Cry instead of just added in is to reduce damage received from his death. He's built like Karg or Pyk reduced health but bigger on the outside ;-)

After all a hero that kills allied heroes should not hurt you much when he dies ;)

I'm not 100% sure about changes to Waru I just feel he needs something to make him more useful and appealing when in play and if he gets to stick around a little longer ... it really is a minor suggested boost, at level 7 that increase is only 14 health bring the War Cry boost up to 85 from 71 o.O

Meo
03-14-2017, 05:01 AM
Komeul 45 or 50 doesn't make a difference except initial activation. You need to change him to 51 (so a 5 match doesn't activate him)

Waru is fine. He doesn't need a stronger battlecry. Waru is balanced because he does attack allies. He's pretty OP. I've used him to hunt down elephants.

gWorldz
03-14-2017, 05:22 AM
Komeul 45 or 50 doesn't make a difference except initial activation. You need to change him to 51 (so a 5 match doesn't activate him)

Waru is fine. He doesn't need a stronger battlecry. Waru is balanced because he does attack allies. He's pretty OP. I've used him to hunt down elephants.

Good Point about Komeul but keep in mind ...

3u Match = 15|30 ---OR--- 18|33
4u Match = 20|40 ---OR--- 24|44
5u Match = 25|50 ---OR--- 30|55
6u Match = 30|60 ---OR--- 36|66

... if I remember correctly so maybe even 57 haha I do agree with your assessment and think at least 51 now that you bring up activation.

As for Waru, my real issue is when you get him you have to solo him out and restrict your heroes or wait until everything you have is dead or just kill all your heroes too, he needs an adjustment somewhere lol yes he can be OP but you have to have an opponent that isn't using any of the meta heroes and your opponent has to get all their heroes out for you to kill or you have to cascade the win or stop using Waru and drop your other heroes ignoring him until he's dead or the match is over. Waru has too much useless, I guess its like Liu, Wakai if you play an absent minded or distracted opponent you can own them but against someone focused paying attention they are worthless :-(

Michael Garde
03-14-2017, 05:50 AM
hembala: the removal of his effect on activation guage makes him back to what he was, and was a tad weak for a legendary....
waru is pretty good as he is
komeul only needs a small guage increase. If he cant stack his effects he will end up pointless and just be good for the freeze. But if your opponents down to one hero should komeul be able to do 4 attacks on it? that seems a bit op
tali: dont think double attack is fair but an increase is needed
the others I agree

Meo
03-14-2017, 06:41 AM
I still play Waru sometimes even if I have another hero out (depending on the hero) and how many heroes my opponent has out. If you have Sokal/Marraar/Borg/Pyk and your opponent brought out 2/3 heroes, I'd use Waru. Mathematically there is a 33% or 25% chance of him hitting your tank healer/blocker so the risk is worth it.

Borg does need some love being the weakest among the healers.

Yeah...Hembala's gauge needs a bit of an increase. At least to 81 (or more)

NickWilde
03-14-2017, 08:33 AM
@Hembala:
keep everything as now EXCEPT reduces only 1, instead of 15, activation gauge of targeted heroes.
OR:
makes him as the earliest version. no longer reduces activation gauge and slightly reduce the dmg, but he can also do direct dmg to opponent.


and i still suggest that @Kishu need balance. she is extremly OP above lvl 5 comparing with other troop-healer.

Jason Tek Chun Sheng
03-14-2017, 11:33 AM
I think all of the healers need 25% health nerf because if someone is using Full-Out Heal Deck, it's just unstoppable since the heroes keeps healing themselves and the entire battlefield

Michael Garde
03-14-2017, 12:49 PM
Kishus gauge and falkars gauge both need increasing

Meo
03-14-2017, 04:27 PM
I think all of the healers need 25% health nerf because if someone is using Full-Out Heal Deck, it's just unstoppable since the heroes keeps healing themselves and the entire battlefield

If you have Stortan you could render them useless and hopefully you have some hero killers. Pyk would slow them down substantially.

For all healer teams that are probably hiding behind one another hugging the walls a Horis/Nara/Mandra/Floyd would be deadly. Target seekers like Uku/Falkar/Ken-Uh/Hembala/Shura/Chasqa would be decent as well.

Gwenn would be disruptive and if you activate Saru 2 or 3 times they become quite manageable.

Skunkix
03-14-2017, 05:03 PM
Any healer is usually stoped by reds heroes or fire / freeze

Estefan Rodriguez
03-15-2017, 02:05 AM
all i see are healer teams now, its so annoying, no unique teams at all, its starting to get annoying, something minor should be done to healers though

Knightified
03-15-2017, 03:21 AM
all i see are healer teams now, its so annoying, no unique teams at all, its starting to get annoying, something minor should be done to healers though

Only two healers I see issues with are Kishu and Marrar. I think both of their gauges need to be increased.

Meo
03-15-2017, 03:59 AM
Maarrar's fine. Once they drop to the front they need to waste a move for their healing to be of use. Kishu does need a little increase.

I'd rather meet healing teams than Hembala, Kishu, Komeul teams. Killing Kishu without freezing her first is like a death wish.

DrollApe
03-15-2017, 09:59 AM
Hello
I have only 1 problem, it's not the heros themselves, it's team of 2 or 4 heros with the same color
I think we need some adjustments like this
2 Heros:+5% to activate
3 heros :10%
4 Heros: 15% (20%?)

DrollApe
03-15-2017, 11:53 AM
Mirga should be able to heal all the heros, on the field or not

Skunkix
03-15-2017, 12:39 PM
I'd rather meet healing teams than Hembala, Kishu, Komeul teams. Killing Kishu without freezing her first is like a death wish.

This. I love hembala but he needs a little (little) *little* gauge imcrease. It stomp my heroes everytime.
Dont kill the hero plz just add +5 gauge or somewhat.

Knightified
03-15-2017, 01:49 PM
This. I love hembala but he needs a little (little) *little* gauge imcrease. It stomp my heroes everytime.
Dont kill the hero plz just add +5 gauge or somewhat.

He needs 81 or higher imo.

Jason Tek Chun Sheng
03-15-2017, 04:19 PM
If you have Stortan you could render them useless and hopefully you have some hero killers. Pyk would slow them down substantially.

For all healer teams that are probably hiding behind one another hugging the walls a Horis/Nara/Mandra/Floyd would be deadly. Target seekers like Uku/Falkar/Ken-Uh/Hembala/Shura/Chasqa would be decent as well.

Gwenn would be disruptive and if you activate Saru 2 or 3 times they become quite manageable.

Actually in PVP is not that bad, the problem is in PVE where the heroes does double healing and also they are tanky

Jason Tek Chun Sheng
03-15-2017, 04:20 PM
Here's some changes I've had rolling around in my head for a few seasons that I think might *balance* heroes o.O



Just some ideas, let me know what you think, what you agree or disagree with and what you feel I may have missed --'

Hembala no longer reduces activation cost squad!

Meo
03-15-2017, 04:57 PM
Hembala no longer reduces activation cost squad!

Yes he does. 5 minutes ago just ran into a built team with Hembala and Saal.

Jason Tek Chun Sheng
03-15-2017, 05:41 PM
Yes he does. 5 minutes ago just ran into a built team with Hembala and Saal.

Saal??
10chars

Meo
03-15-2017, 05:49 PM
New epic hero.

Jason Tek Chun Sheng
03-15-2017, 05:59 PM
New epic hero.

Can't find his stats in the wikia

Knightified
03-15-2017, 06:05 PM
I still think Marrar needs SOMETHING done though...maybe health decrease?

Meo
03-15-2017, 06:11 PM
Can't find his stats in the wikia

Go to your Barracks

Scroll all the way to the bottom. There in grey will be all the heroes you are missing and their level requirement. You can click on them and it will show you their stats

Meo
03-15-2017, 06:18 PM
Marraar is on track with other healers.

Mori (Level 10)(Gauge 65): 29*8=232
Marraar (Level 10)(Gauge 75): 47*6=282
Masha (Level10)(Gauge 50):26*8=208
Bane (Level 10)(Gauge 46): 21*8=168

Marraar dropping to the front is utterly useless.
Masha drop to the front becomes 26*5=130

Really Borg needs a boost at 19*6

Jason Tek Chun Sheng
03-15-2017, 07:14 PM
Marraar is on track with other healers.

Mori (Level 10)(Gauge 65): 29*8=232
Marraar (Level 10)(Gauge 75): 47*6=282
Masha (Level10)(Gauge 50):26*8=208
Bane (Level 10)(Gauge 46): 21*8=168

Marraar dropping to the front is utterly useless.
Masha drop to the front becomes 26*5=130

Really Borg needs a boost at 19*6

Maaraar is only best used when he is being tanked

Knightified
03-15-2017, 08:31 PM
Marraar is on track with other healers.

Mori (Level 10)(Gauge 65): 29*8=232
Marraar (Level 10)(Gauge 75): 47*6=282
Masha (Level10)(Gauge 50):26*8=208
Bane (Level 10)(Gauge 46): 21*8=168

Marraar dropping to the front is utterly useless.
Masha drop to the front becomes 26*5=130

Really Borg needs a boost at 19*6

I meant his hero HP.

Meo
03-15-2017, 09:54 PM
Nah. Why are you picking on Marrarr and not Sokal/Ken-Uh?

I think Tai needs to be nerfed. -60% activation means anything with a 61 gauge or lower will be activated with a 3 tile match. Torr/Horis/Erys will be activated 3 times with ease.

ProudSpud
03-16-2017, 05:30 AM
I agree that Borg needs a boost. His stats are low compared to the rest of the healers. Even if his gauge is low. Masha also has a low gauge, yet she heals 2 more units than him and for a higher amount.

Knightified
03-16-2017, 02:38 PM
Nah. Why are you picking on Marrarr and not Sokal/Ken-Uh?

I think Tai needs to be nerfed. -60% activation means anything with a 61 gauge or lower will be activated with a 3 tile match. Torr/Horis/Erys will be activated 3 times with ease.

You can reduce them too if you want, but Marrar is much more powerful than Sokal as far as buffers go.

Meo
03-16-2017, 04:14 PM
Forget what I said about Tai. I think that -60% activation is just for himself and not others.


You can reduce them too if you want, but Marrar is much more powerful than Sokal as far as buffers go.

But with Marraar you need a blocker and that makes them vulnerable to attackers like Horis/Mandra/Nara.

Sokal you don't have this problem.

Jason Tek Chun Sheng
03-16-2017, 04:20 PM
Forget what I said about Tai. I think that -60% activation is just for himself and not others.



But with Marraar you need a blocker and that makes them vulnerable to attackers like Horis/Mandra/Nara.

Sokal you don't have this problem.

Healers heal each other most of the time, also Horis is pretty underused

Meo
03-16-2017, 04:27 PM
Healers heal each other most of the time, also Horis is pretty underused

Not really. Most healers heal vulnerable positions.

Unless you're sure you opponent doesn't have Liu, I wouldn't leave any healers in Mori territory (except Masha). Sokal is vulnerable to Ku-Luo, Jasser and Wakai. Borg to cascade. Kishu's heal isn't really that great +14 maybe.

Only healer I worry about is Marraar really.

I love getting Horis/Nara in PvP.

Michael Garde
03-16-2017, 09:21 PM
Maaraar just needs a health decrease.
Kishu needs and activation increase
Borg and bane need a power increase, Borg especially
Sokal could do with a bit of a power increase to tho with his health he might be a bit unbalanced then
Souhel and sarkamins gauges are both prob a touch too high for them to be really effective
Falkar needs a bit of an activation increase as well

Michael Garde
03-16-2017, 09:49 PM
And he hembala maybe just needs to scrap the increased activation speed but keep the -15 off the gauge ... Maybe

Meo
03-16-2017, 09:56 PM
Maaraar just needs a health decrease.
Kishu needs and activation increase
Borg and bane need a power increase, Borg especially
Sokal could do with a bit of a power increase to tho with his health he might be a bit unbalanced then
Souhel and sarkamins gauges are both prob a touch too high for them to be really effective
Falkar needs a bit of an activation increase as well

Yes to Kishu's activation increase. Needs to be minimum 61 (I would prefer something a little higher)

No to Bane increase. He has the lowest gauge of all healers at 46 not to mention he can be anywhere so falling to the front doesn't matter. Sokal is healing 156 at level 10 and with a gauge of 50, he also doesn't need a power increase.

I think Souhel's fine, just because I always leave him until the end and then wipe out the enemy.

Best thing about Hembala was his activation increase, I want them to keep that. Scrap the decrease in gauge and give him direct opponent attack. It would make Hembala more balanced because you now have to consider "when" to use him and not "I'll use him whenever I want without suffering any consequence".

Michael Garde
03-17-2017, 12:24 AM
Yes to Kishu's activation increase. Needs to be minimum 61 (I would prefer something a little higher)

No to Bane increase. He has the lowest gauge of all healers at 46 not to mention he can be anywhere so falling to the front doesn't matter. Sokal is healing 156 at level 10 and with a gauge of 50, he also doesn't need a power increase.

I think Souhel's fine, just because I always leave him until the end and then wipe out the enemy.

".

Bane has low health and you cant use him strategically because he charges tiles randomly (btw I dont like callin them healers, tai and mirga are actually healers but thats besides the point) he doesnt have much going for him at all so I reckon he should pack a bigger punch...
sokals 156 is pretty ordinary and you need to charge him lots of times for him to be effective, his big health balances that out but he is a better blocker than he is attacker but i do think he is balanced, just on the lower side of balanced tho

I usually don't have souhel charged until the end of the match so he is really just a one hit wonder and if he does get out early he usually gets moved or your opponents heroes have moved from where they were once again making him a one hit wonder. i wasnt thinking much of a decrease but they have the highest guage and given most games dont last to long these days I think a slight drop wouldnt hurt....

I didnt know hembala had been nerfed so i retract my previous suggestion :)

Eegge Boyinh
03-17-2017, 08:42 AM
Hembala is still not patched/nerfed. What's the hold up?

Meo
03-17-2017, 03:53 PM
Bane has low health and you cant use him strategically because he charges tiles randomly (btw I dont like callin them healers, tai and mirga are actually healers but thats besides the point) he doesnt have much going for him at all so I reckon he should pack a bigger punch...
sokals 156 is pretty ordinary and you need to charge him lots of times for him to be effective, his big health balances that out but he is a better blocker than he is attacker but i do think he is balanced, just on the lower side of balanced tho

I usually don't have souhel charged until the end of the match so he is really just a one hit wonder and if he does get out early he usually gets moved or your opponents heroes have moved from where they were once again making him a one hit wonder. i wasnt thinking much of a decrease but they have the highest guage and given most games dont last to long these days I think a slight drop wouldnt hurt....

I didnt know hembala had been nerfed so i retract my previous suggestion :)

That's why Bane is so awesome cause he buffs all over the place. You can basically match anywhere and his health isn't that low.

Hembala has not been nerfed. He's a pain in random teams but in constructed teams you really might as well give up.

Michael Garde
03-17-2017, 09:55 PM
i find random placement a much worse trait than knowing where they will buff and his health is pretty average and the lowest of the heroes he similar to. Never heard anyone say banes awesome before either, I've always had him in he almost useless category

Meo
03-17-2017, 10:57 PM
It's because no one ever talks about Bane, he's pretty well balanced really.

I enjoy his random buffing and low gauge. He is most effective when your opponent doesn't have any heroes out. Then you can easily cascade 200-300HP each round (assuming you only have him out)

EDIT: Doc doesn't like him.

gWorldz
03-18-2017, 04:09 AM
lol nah I like Bane just fine, I just prefer Borg. I avoid most of the RNG heroes and prefer heroes I can rely on. That doesn't mean that I don't like RNG heroes, just that I don't chose them when I have other choices. To be honest I'd like to get Bane a +1 to Buff but like you said its a question of balance. I think +1 would make he balanced better to other Buffers and compensate for his randomness but it could very well be all that it takes to make him OP.

Something I want to see is a hero that removes enemy buffs on units and a hero that flips the board giving you your enemies units and giving them yours essentially letting us steal there buffed boards and cascade it back at them lol

Sorry for rambling off subject lol

Michael Garde
03-19-2017, 11:23 AM
Both Borg and bane are crap to me.....
I still think kiit needs a slight activation increase also

Knightified
03-19-2017, 04:38 PM
Both Borg and bane are crap to me.....
I still think kiit needs a slight activation increase also

Completely agreed with the Kiit statement.

Jason Tek Chun Sheng
03-19-2017, 04:46 PM
Borg is actually quite OP if you know how to use him, he needs a certain support card to make him useful like Bane since both are green gauged and have almost the same gauge activation

Michael Garde
03-19-2017, 08:32 PM
Ok well let's say you have Borg and bane together and I have mori and Maarrar. I'm willin to bet I win.

Anyways yep kiit, gauge increase please

Meo
03-19-2017, 08:53 PM
Kiit is a hit or miss. I just played a game where I activated Kiit 10 times and he missed Styr and Borg, the front 2 rows all 10 times.

Borg and Bane would lose because Borg is too weak. You need Bane and Sokal to make it a fairer fight.

Michael Garde
03-19-2017, 09:35 PM
Kiit is a hit or miss. I just played a game where I activated Kiit 10 times and he missed Styr and Borg, the front 2 rows all 10 times.

Borg and Bane would lose because Borg is too weak. You need Bane and Sokal to make it a fairer fight.


That's pretty much my point. I'd put the three green buffers against the two blue and although it'd be closer I think I'd still take the two blues. Sokals ok but either the blues are too strong of the greens too weak...

Yeah kiit has less chance of hitting the front or back row but has double the chance of hitting the other rows, given his high attack and is absolutely devastating against two tile heroes, both vertical and horizontal, and he also wipes out a third of your board. imo he's too easily activated. I've wiped out whole teams and had my team wiped in one turn from 3 kiit attacks. He, like komeul, just needs to be made more difficult to activate so frequently.
Btw just played a game and after the frist turn my opponent activated komeul 7 times in a row without even a cas ace combo!

gWorldz
03-20-2017, 12:01 AM
Ok well let's say you have Borg and bane together and I have mori and Maarrar. I'm willin to bet I win.

Anyways yep kiit, gauge increase please

I'll take those odds, its all RNG and cascade skills anyway ;)

With Bane and Borg popping at around 50 activating 3 times a turn goes pretty easy with Mori and Maarrar getting lucky to pop Mori twice and Maarrar once most of the time with his gauge.

L10 Bane 43 x3 = 63
L10 Borg 50 x3 = 60
--- Over 2 Turns Total: 246

L10 Maarrar x1.5 = 70.5
L10 Mori 65 x2 = 58
--- Over 2 Turns Total: 246

Blue doesn't actually have the overwhelming power it feels like they do when you crunch the numbers and account for an unlikely average of 5u Green or Blue per move ... at most Blue has only 1 damage lead ... that's not really enough of a difference to give any other odds than 50|50 split for the winner.

Its all perspective, then its a numbers game and then its a handful of friendly matches that just prove its all RNG -_-

Meo
03-20-2017, 01:21 AM
That's pretty much my point. I'd put the three green buffers against the two blue and although it'd be closer I think I'd still take the two blues. Sokals ok but either the blues are too strong of the greens too weak...

Yeah kiit has less chance of hitting the front or back row but has double the chance of hitting the other rows, given his high attack and is absolutely devastating against two tile heroes, both vertical and horizontal, and he also wipes out a third of your board. imo he's too easily activated. I've wiped out whole teams and had my team wiped in one turn from 3 kiit attacks. He, like komeul, just needs to be made more difficult to activate so frequently.
Btw just played a game and after the frist turn my opponent activated komeul 7 times in a row without even a cas ace combo!

You've misunderstood. I'm saying Bane + Sokal and Mori + Maarrar is about even.

Beginning gauge for Marraar is 75
Sokal with the higher of the two green is only at 50

All things equal I summon/activate Sokal and Bane twice before Maarrar once.

It's because when people get a Mori+Maarrar match it feels OP but once that match is gone those tiles are gone. Bane and Sokal tiles are all over the entire board so over the course of 3 moves they even out. Green are not inferior.

Michael Garde
03-20-2017, 04:49 AM
yeah i got what you were saying but you said yourself "Borg and Bane would lose because Borg is too weak" which is exactly the point i was trying to make :)

me and doc played about 8 matches this morning, i only had mori/maarrar and he had borg/bane and i won all but 2 of them. He is making up excuses (lol) but to me proved the point I was trying to make

Jason Tek Chun Sheng
03-20-2017, 06:08 AM
All heal deck is so broken, nerf them all!!

Jason Tek Chun Sheng
03-20-2017, 07:47 AM
Ok well let's say you have Borg and bane together and I have mori and Maarrar. I'm willin to bet I win.

Anyways yep kiit, gauge increase please

Borg and Bane has cheaper gauge limit

gWorldz
03-20-2017, 08:06 AM
yeah i got what you were saying but you said yourself "Borg and Bane would lose because Borg is too weak" which is exactly the point i was trying to make :)

me and doc played about 8 matches this morning, i only had mori/maarrar and he had borg/bane and i won all but 2 of them. He is making up excuses (lol) but to me proved the point I was trying to make
I'm not disagreeing that Borg is weak lol

I just think they are evenly matched as long as the boards match up and both sides get an even distribution of units. One or both of us was screwed almost every match to board distribution where we couldn't match anything for 2-3 turns more than a 3u o.O

I still think its 50|50 cause in our matches, they were all pretty close and the health stayed about even until one of us got a lucky cascade after cascade to take the match. Hoping we'll get in some more tomorrow and hopefully those matches will be more balanced than today, and whoever went first was usually the one that got lucky -_-

Basically the person with an extra turn won the match, its not my fault the game was mad at me for not playing all day and only let me go first once :ohno:

Really was fun though, and hope we can have some more fun later :D

Michael Garde
03-20-2017, 08:48 AM
I'm not disagreeing that Borg is weak lol

I just think they are evenly matched as long as the boards match up and both sides get an even distribution of units. One or both of us was screwed almost every match to board distribution where we couldn't match anything for 2-3 turns more than a 3u o.O

I still think its 50|50 cause in our matches, they were all pretty close and the health stayed about even until one of us got a lucky cascade after cascade to take the match. Hoping we'll get in some more tomorrow and hopefully those matches will be more balanced than today, and whoever went first was usually the one that got lucky -_-

Basically the person with an extra turn won the match, its not my fault the game was mad at me for not playing all day and only let me go first once :ohno:

Really was fun though, and hope we can have some more fun later :D

definitely have some more "testing" to do. I wont take it so easy on you next time tho.. haha

Eegge Boyinh
03-20-2017, 08:06 PM
Still trying to figure out why Hembala is not patched or nerfed yet.

Knightified
03-21-2017, 01:03 AM
Still trying to figure out why Hembala is not patched or nerfed yet.

Right?

I think they're waiting until they have a sizeable amount of heroes to patch.

Jason Tek Chun Sheng
03-23-2017, 07:18 AM
She chips so such for such a cheap gauge hero, so as Maaraar. Just......nerf their gauge

Skunkix
03-23-2017, 11:42 AM
Its balanced most now, back on time he healed x4 squares on the middle with all healed clustered there. That was really cool for her btw.


Also, moving thread to live balance discussion

Knightified
03-23-2017, 05:48 PM
She chips so such for such a cheap gauge hero, so as Maaraar. Just......nerf their gauge

Mori is fine, as is Marrar.

Borg needs ability increase to buff more.

Kishu needs gauge increase.

Besides those all the healers are pretty balanced.

gWorldz
03-24-2017, 12:23 AM
Mori is fine, as is Marrar.

Borg needs ability increase to buff more.

Kishu needs gauge increase.

Besides those all the healers are pretty balanced.

To be honest I think Mori is more or less balanced and Maarrar could use a +5-6 increase for activation bringing him up to 80-81.

Mori 10 buffs 8 units 29 for 65, 232 total, 3.57 damage per point of charge
Maarar 10 buffs 6 units 47 for 75, 282 total, 3.76 damage per point of charge

Bane 10 buffs 8 units 21 for 46, 168 total, 3.65 damage per point of charge
Borg 10 buffs 6 units 20 for 50, 120 total, 2.40 damage per point of charge
Sokal 10 buffs 12 units 13 for 50, 156 total, 3.12 damage per point of charge

If Maarrar was raised to 80 or 81 he would be more balanced compared to other heroes with 3.53 and 3.48 damage per unit of charge respectively effectively balancing him as its very apparent from the numbers above he is quite OP compared to other heroes that buff.

Interestingly enough to correct Borg and Sokal and effectively balance them, Borg would need his gauge lowered to 34 to get 3.52 or have his damage increased by +9 to have 3.48 damage per unit and Sokal would need his gauge reduced to 45 to have 3.47 or +1 damage to have 3.65 damage per unit of charge.

It might even be a decent suggestion to raise Mori to 66 gauge to give him 3.52 damage per unit of charge, and increase Banes gauge to 58 to make his damage per unit of charge 3.50 even. This mainly cause ~3.50 seems to be about the current average.

For those who are curious Kishus damage per unit at level 5 is 5.14 and to bring her down to 3.5 ish suggested above her gauge would need to increase to 81 to have 3.56 per unit of damage or have her damage decreased -2 to have 3.85 damage per unit of charge. However as an Epic hero I personally think aiming for 4.5 on Kishu would be best. To get 4.5, Kishu needs gauge increased 64 to have 4.5 damage per unit or damage reduced by -1 to have 4.50 damage per unit of charge.

Perhaps Kishu needs to be nerfed even more than that since she has such a devastating death rattle --'

... but that's a debate I don't know which side to support. I think 4.5 would balance Kishu better than her current 5.14 and still keep her quite powerful o.O

Knightified
03-24-2017, 06:32 PM
I think Ken-Uh needs a small nerf. Could be decrease in health or damage, but something needs to be changed.

Michael Garde
03-25-2017, 05:56 AM
Hey doc, when breaking down the stats you have to take into consideration things like hp, area of their attack/buff, things like maarrar being useless on the front row. There is more to balancing heroes than just giving them an equal attack/buff otherwise we essentially just get the same hero in different skins

Jason Tek Chun Sheng
03-25-2017, 10:47 AM
I think Ken-Uh needs a small nerf. Could be decrease in health or damage, but something needs to be changed.

Or increase in gauge

Jason Tek Chun Sheng
03-25-2017, 11:05 AM
Mori is fine, as is Marrar.

Borg needs ability increase to buff more.

Kishu needs gauge increase.

Besides those all the healers are pretty balanced.

Healers are broken

gWorldz
03-25-2017, 03:43 PM
Hey doc, when breaking down the stats you have to take into consideration things like hp, area of their attack/buff, things like maarrar being useless on the front row. There is more to balancing heroes than just giving them an equal attack/buff otherwise we essentially just get the same hero in different skins
Yes I know but those issues still favor the blue heroes, at level 10 Mori 295 Maarrar 496 Bane 266 Borg 413 Sokal 487 and at level 5 Kishu 248 but with Death Rattle and the 4.50 suggested instead of the 3.50 I gave the rest of them its really not a concern. Mori has always been best compared to Bane and Maarrar best compared to Borg or Sokal and in both instances blue still comes off slightly OP especially when you break down the stats like I did above.
;)
Plus anyone that plays with Maarrar overcomes his front row issues that only seems like a limitation when you first get him or if he's the last hero standing.

Knightified
03-25-2017, 04:56 PM
Just place a hero in front of Maarrar. Problem solved.

Skunkix
03-25-2017, 05:04 PM
Just place a hero in front of Maarrar. Problem solved.

Horis and wan xiao liked your post.

gWorldz
03-25-2017, 05:48 PM
Horis and wan xiao liked your post.

Horis don't care much either way to be honest he'll take on Maarrar solo if he has to, because if he doesn't your gonna win anyway with Maarrar since he can keep the blocks in front of him buffed. We can start a new thread to discuss whats broken with Wan & Xiao if you want they got their own OP issues
;)
... and having a couple heroes that can take out heroes that can take out everyone and everything in their way is part of having a balanced game. Right now Blue Healers are a little on the meaty side and harder to get rid of than Green Healers, even the meaty green healers. That tag team of Mori with Maarrar sitting directly behind him to boost him a couple times before Mori get slid up from unit damage and Maarrar can go all out across the line usually makes Mori look like a second Maarrar as far as health goes.

The Maarrar stack can usually take quite and onslaught from Horis often requiring 3-4 hits and stacked heroes can get past Wan & Xiao to quite easily. Other heroes you left out that are also an issue are Floyd Mandra and Khan with even Arpa and Erys having the ability to become a nuisance for the Maarrar stack but no more so than they have to annoy a lone Maarrar sitting on the front row.

RANT FOLLOWS

BTW I took 1200 damage from Mori Maarar stack on second turn once and that was with level 9 versions they both got dropped on second move of first turn, were charged again on the last move and on second turn I had 1200+ and they activated 3 times killing me on the last move. No other heroes on the board ... from either side since I only got 1 turn o.O

I know that was all luck and pretty crappy for me that match but that's still crazy damage for 4 total activations and most of the units buffed didn't even get used!

Just an example, but you all know how good blue healers are you actually use them ... green healers ... not so much huh lol ... yup I know ... only when you have to :P

That's the entire point I think, people will use what give them an advantage and face it blue clearly gives you an advantage compared to green. After the many games me and Michael played testing it was apparent I could activate green 3 times per turn and with 1 activation of Mori and Maarrar he was back in the lead and when he would get 2-3 activations in a turn he was guaranteed victory. I teased him about it being a who goes first is the winner issue but we both knew that was a joke. I only went first twice out of dozens of matches, they were mostly close matches down to the last 300 health when one of us would get lucky o.O

Knightified
03-25-2017, 06:46 PM
Tali's damage needs to be increased.

Skunkix's gauge needs to be increased.

Michael Garde
03-25-2017, 10:50 PM
Yes I know but those issues still favor the blue heroes, at level 10 Mori 295 Maarrar 496 Bane 266 Borg 413 Sokal 487 and at level 5 Kishu 248 but with Death Rattle and the 4.50 suggested instead of the 3.50 I gave the rest of them its really not a concern. Mori has always been best compared to Bane and Maarrar best compared to Borg or Sokal and in both instances blue still comes off slightly OP especially when you break down the stats like I did above.
;)
Plus anyone that plays with Maarrar overcomes his front row issues that only seems like a limitation when you first get him or if he's the last hero standing.

Well I dont think blue are OP, its more that the greens are slightly UP, which was my argument earlier in this post but I am glad you are now somewhat in agreeanace with me
"Blue doesn't actually have the overwhelming power it feels like they do when you crunch the numbers" a quote from you doc a few pages back ;)
Kishu doesnt come into this as its different from the other tile buffers ( but it still desperately needs a guage increase)
Skunk basically summed up the disadvantage of needing to hide maarrar behind other heroes. Nara, konil, floyd loves seeing that also!
Maarrar front row issue is a big thing. It's quite easily done and if you are not aiming to atleast bring him to the front row than its your own fault he scores many points against you.
Also there are many heroes that essentially remove the tile buffs, they are the likes of Kiit, squy, Hiru, outi for the front row, kaala, shi, savis, erys etc etc etc... and there are also the ones that move heroes through tiles no watter how much they are buffed, nara, kahn, mandra and the king of wiping out buffed tiles wan&xiou.

anyways I stand by my original motion I made earlier in this post that sokal is closest green to being balanced but bane and borg are underpowered. Blues are balanced but maybe maarrars health could be reduced.

gWorldz
03-25-2017, 11:37 PM
Yes admittedly I hadn't completely crunched the numbers yet hahaha

I had just glanced at it and estimated without doing the actual math --'

I still prefer green to blue though, personal preference ;)

Pheenix
03-26-2017, 06:47 AM
I can see a lot of people rage quitting over Skunkix...

Deals damage, moves enemy heroes randomly AND changes their colour.

You'd expect that kind of work to come from a legendary - nope, this guy is true blue, through and through.

Just another set of tactics to deal with or OP and a target for the nerf bat?

Knightified
03-26-2017, 09:52 AM
As I've already said in the hero discussion thread for this season, he needs either a huge gauge increase or a huge ability decrease.

Jason Tek Chun Sheng
03-26-2017, 11:07 AM
They are broken, even more broken when overleveled

Jason Tek Chun Sheng
03-26-2017, 11:10 AM
Out of all the Legendaries, Wan and Xiao is so bad if you compared to Squy as well

Knightified
03-26-2017, 11:13 AM
You've said this multiple times already. Please quit making threads just complaining about it. Go to the hero discussion thread and accurately say what is wrong with the hero as it is and how to fix it.

Knightified
03-26-2017, 11:14 AM
Wan Xiao's main benefit is moving all the heroes towards the center. Can line it up perfectly for heroes like Horis, Nara, etc.

Jason Tek Chun Sheng
03-26-2017, 11:22 AM
Wan Xiao's main benefit is moving all the heroes towards the center. Can line it up perfectly for heroes like Horis, Nara, etc.

After when Wan Xiao move all of them to the center, then shoot the energy bomb, the heroes will just drop to the bottom of the board

Jason Tek Chun Sheng
03-26-2017, 11:23 AM
You've said this multiple times already. Please quit making threads just complaining about it. Go to the hero discussion thread and accurately say what is wrong with the hero as it is and how to fix it.

I doubt the best ounter would be Squy and Wan and Xiao since they take out mmajority of the map but when the oponent uses Mori and Maaraar combo,they still have at least one move to recede which can result in a big pain, also Maaraar has too much health for a one tile hero

Knightified
03-26-2017, 12:06 PM
After when Wan Xiao move all of them to the center, then shoot the energy bomb, the heroes will just drop to the bottom of the board

So? Heroes like Horis and Nara effect the entire column, so it doesn't matter if hero is in the front or back.

Jason Tek Chun Sheng
03-26-2017, 01:01 PM
So? Heroes like Horis and Nara effect the entire column, so it doesn't matter if hero is in the front or back.

Does anyone even uses those heroes in higher Leagues?

Knightified
03-26-2017, 01:13 PM
Does anyone even uses those heroes in higher Leagues?

Absolutely. A lot of higher level players use Random instead of Constructed. You get a good dose of every hero through that.

Jason Tek Chun Sheng
03-26-2017, 01:28 PM
Absolutely. A lot of higher level players use Random instead of Constructed. You get a good dose of every hero through that.

Planning to play random but problem now is card levels

Knightified
03-26-2017, 01:33 PM
Planning to play random but problem now is card levels

Levels shouldn't be a problem if you evolve heroes evenly. Meaning, don't just focus on your four main constructed heroes but rather every hero.

All of my commons are 9+ (Except new ones)
Most of my rares are 7+ (Except new ones)
All of my epics are 4+ (Except new ones and Floyd)
All of my legendaries are 3+ (Except Ned who is currently 3/4)

Jason Tek Chun Sheng
03-26-2017, 02:27 PM
Levels shouldn't be a problem if you evolve heroes evenly. Meaning, don't just focus on your four main constructed heroes but rather every hero.

All of my commons are 9+ (Except new ones)
Most of my rares are 7+ (Except new ones)
All of my epics are 4+ (Except new ones and Floyd)
All of my legendaries are 3+ (Except Ned who is currently 3/4)

That's just overleveled

Jason Tek Chun Sheng
03-26-2017, 02:46 PM
Hmmm...Let's see, having the gauge of Torr/Horis, deals more damage than both of them, have a Death Rattle that adds more chaos

4552252
03-26-2017, 04:16 PM
u really have so many boring questions . so whatever. designer made it for a purpose. just take it

4552252
03-26-2017, 04:24 PM
i saw so many smart players with heroes of low lv and much less life than i do.
it all depends on practice and skills. u lose more means u need to play more

Skunkix
03-26-2017, 04:42 PM
I can see a lot of people rage quitting over Skunkix...

Deals damage, moves enemy heroes randomly AND changes their colour.

You'd expect that kind of work to come from a legendary - nope, this guy is true blue, through and through.

Just another set of tactics to deal with or OP and a target for the nerf bat?


The movement and the colour change are a really double or nothing most times. But i agree with knight, he may need a bit gauge increase.



Im sorry @Pheenix. when i merged the threads the forum literally mixed up them =/

Skunkix
03-26-2017, 04:45 PM
Plase, avoid creating multiple threads for each hero, this thread is to avoid that.


Thanks!

Walther
03-26-2017, 10:15 PM
imho
Tali needs a revamp, she is to big for what she does, i would reduce her size to one field and her damage area should be the first row, just like wakai.

waru should be downgraded, to much HP and to much damage if you only have one hero out.

Sarkamin needs his gauge reduced to something like 100.

Stortan needs his gauge increased because he is to easy to activate and, if you play random and you only have healers you cant do anything!

Falkar needs his damage reduced.
---

the new badger is fine, i think the color change is a positiv thing and helps the enemy.

Michael Garde
03-26-2017, 11:11 PM
Hello
I have only 1 problem, it's not the heros themselves, it's team of 2 or 4 heros with the same color
I think we need some adjustments like this
2 Heros:+5% to activate
3 heros :10%
4 Heros: 15% (20%?)

Altho having one colour can work against you a times most of the time it greatly works in your favour so I think an idea like this might not be a bad thing

Skunkix
03-26-2017, 11:15 PM
I have seen that on another game and didnt like it. I particually rather the same recharge rate.



the new badger is fine, i think the color change is a positiv thing and helps the enemy.

I see same way, but i think he may be a few points more of gauge. like 71 istead of 69.

Its too random to be considered op and to increase a lot the gauge. It is Balanced enought.

Knightified
03-26-2017, 11:16 PM
Altho having one colour can work against you a times most of the time it greatly works in your favour so I think an idea like this might not be a bad thing

But then you get into issues like you got the team through random and now it's like you're being punished. Personally I don't support the idea.

Michael Garde
03-26-2017, 11:20 PM
imho
Tali needs a revamp, she is to big for what she does, i would reduce her size to one field and her damage area should be the first row, just like wakai.

waru should be downgraded, to much HP and to much damage if you only have one hero out.

Sarkamin needs his gauge reduced to something like 100.

Stortan needs his gauge increased because he is to easy to activate and, if you play random and you only have healers you cant do anything!

Falkar needs his damage reduced.
---

the new badger is fine, i think the color change is a positiv thing and helps the enemy.

taking into account talis regen ability i think she is fine as is.
waru is an interesting one, yeah on his own he is devastating but if not played by himself he works against you just as much as for you. I reckon his damage is fine but his HP is too high
agreed sarkamin could do with a gauge reduction
I actually think stortan is weak so disagree with anything to make him weaker
Falkar I think just needs a gauge increase to balance out the damage he deals

aaaand once again Kishu, hembala and komeul need balancing more than anything else

Michael Garde
03-26-2017, 11:27 PM
But then you get into issues like you got the team through random and now it's like you're being punished. Personally I don't support the idea.

well no, I wouldnt feel that way but using that logic doesnt it feel like you get punished as it is by getting a team of 4 different colours and your opponent 1 or 2 colours... unless you have some lucky cascading you might have one or 2 heroes charged while their whole team is charged

Skunkix
03-26-2017, 11:42 PM
Monochromatic builds have the biggest problem of all game R N G. Mono teams are so doble edge.




*edit*

Anyone got skunkix on chest? i opened several chest (including pvp) and could not get him. I just bought it the other day.

Michael Garde
03-26-2017, 11:54 PM
Monochromatic builds have the biggest problem of all game R N G. Mono teams are so doble edge.

Agreed they are double edged however in my experience it works in your favour a lot more than against you and when it works in your favour it works in a big way.....
But would you agree that having 4 different colours is always almost always a disadvantage?
.

Skunkix
03-26-2017, 11:59 PM
I rather using 4 colours, for not-so-pro players like me everything you may move works lol. So, when random gives me a 3 or 4 of same colour i know, when i must need the tiles, the field will be totally full of other 3 colours.

I hate mono :C

Michael Garde
03-27-2017, 12:02 AM
I rather using 4 colours, for not-so-pro players like me everything you may move works lol. So, when random gives me a 3 or 4 of same colour i know, when i must need the tiles, the field will be totally full of other 3 colours.

I hate mono :C

fair enough... I like anything but 4 different colour, preferably 2 really but each to their own I guess....

also I got skunkix out of a chest... was a 4 or 8hr chest, I cant really remember but it was one of the first chests I opened after it release

Knightified
03-27-2017, 12:59 AM
well no, I wouldnt feel that way but using that logic doesnt it feel like you get punished as it is by getting a team of 4 different colours and your opponent 1 or 2 colours... unless you have some lucky cascading you might have one or 2 heroes charged while their whole team is charged

To be honest when using random I generally hope for mixed color teams. Gives you a wide variety of heroes and it's difficult for your opponent to guess what heroes you have.

gWorldz
03-27-2017, 04:37 AM
Please continue this discussion in the Season 14 Live Balance Discussion (http://forums.kobojo.com/showthread.php?16173-Live-Balance-Discussion-Season-14) thread and thank you for your participation :D