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gWorldz
03-27-2017, 04:36 AM
http://i68.tinypic.com/20zutrs.jpg

This thread is for discussing Season 14's unbalanced heroes and reworking their design to fix the problems. Please post with your ideas, as well as, the problem and include why and how your proposed changes can solve the issues.

When posting please try to be concise and use language we can all understand. Don't use this thread to whine and complain, use it instead to contribute to the conversation and help solve the problems ;)


April 10, 2017

Latest Balance Update: http://forums.kobojo.com/showthread.php?16224-10-04-BALANCE-UPDATE

Note: Lion and Phoenix League players always have their ELO reset back to 1100 at the end of each season.

Knightified
03-27-2017, 04:46 AM
To give a bit of a recap from last season's thread:

Kishu: Gauge increase
Komeul: Gauge increase
Hembala: Gauge increase
Borg: Ability increase
Waru: Change warcry into actual max health, possible ability decrease
Tali: Ability increase
Maarrar: Max health decrease / Possible gauge increase or ability decrease

I probably forgot a few we discussed but yeah.

Jason Tek Chun Sheng
03-27-2017, 12:30 PM
Knight, I know you're here. But now let's get to the point, make troops have health capped like once a troop is healed they can never be healed again or another solution is to capped troop's health to be 50 so there will be no "overhealing rampage"

Skunkix
03-27-2017, 03:50 PM
Healers were nerfed big time before. Use balance thread please

4552252
03-27-2017, 04:07 PM
mind showing us ur id number?

Knightified
03-27-2017, 04:27 PM
Knight, I know you're here. But now let's get to the point, make troops have health capped like once a troop is healed they can never be healed again or another solution is to capped troop's health to be 50 so there will be no "overhealing rampage"

That's an awful suggestion. If this was the case and someone had Kishu, they could not pair Kishu with any other troop buffer hero. I understand you don't like troop buffer heroes but you can't just suggest to nerf them to a point where they are useless. There are many strategies and heroes that counter them. Saru is your friend, just saying.

Jason Tek Chun Sheng
03-27-2017, 04:28 PM
mind showing us ur id number?

I'm insecure but okay...41425

Knightified
03-27-2017, 04:29 PM
mind showing us ur id number?

Mine is 455004. You can find some of the more prominent people on here's ID's on this thread: http://forums.kobojo.com/showthread.php?14564-Commander-s-Social-Club

Jason Tek Chun Sheng
03-27-2017, 04:31 PM
That's an awful suggestion. If this was the case and someone had Kishu, they could not pair Kishu with any other troop buffer hero. I understand you don't like troop buffer heroes but you can't just suggest to nerf them to a point where they are useless. There are many strategies and heroes that counter them. Saru is your friend, just saying.

Saru doesn't counter Healers, he is more of the one that support healers

Knightified
03-27-2017, 04:33 PM
Saru doesn't counter Healers, he is more of the one that support healers

Saru decreases the effectiveness of their ability massively. Activate him twice and you're golden (almost guaranteed win) for that game. You can also use heroes like Missar and Konil to freeze enemy heroes, Komeul to freeze / annoy them, Hembala to send them out and make it harder to charge them for a while, Falkar to just snipe them and kill them, Squy to clear board of boosted troops, etc.

Jason Tek Chun Sheng
03-27-2017, 04:35 PM
Saru decreases the effectiveness of their ability massively. Activate him twice and you're golden (almost guaranteed win) for that game. You can also use heroes like Missar and Konil to freeze enemy heroes, Komeul to freeze / annoy them, Hembala to send them out and make it harder to charge them for a while, Falkar to just snipe them and kill them, Squy to clear board of boosted troops, etc.

I used Hembala and Squy(replaced it with Wan and Xiao) but the double charge for Saru depends on the situation of the coloured troops on board, the reason why I hate healers is because they chip so much and have cheap gauge, maybe a gauge nerf instead :P

Michael Garde
03-27-2017, 10:03 PM
Jason, you go on and on and on with this argument yet no one has agreed with you yet. If they annoy you that much then just use stortan and try some new strategies
But back to the topic at hand I agree with knighty and particularly the first 3 he mentioned, komeul, hembala and kishu, they all need a good nerfin. I'm at the point now when if my opponent pulls out those 3 heroes I just don't even bother playin that match and just concede.

4552252
03-27-2017, 11:47 PM
I'm insecure but okay...41425


lv14? r u sure?

Skunkix
03-27-2017, 11:49 PM
komeul really need some gauge increase :P

Meo
03-28-2017, 04:40 AM
Knight, I know you're here. But now let's get to the point, make troops have health capped like once a troop is healed they can never be healed again or another solution is to capped troop's health to be 50 so there will be no "overhealing rampage"

You can't do that cause then they're nothing but a liability. Making a hero one use renders them useless cause they will never heal their worth in HP.

What about buffers: Vernay/Styr/Kane. They could make a Krys hit 500 HP per attack.
Healers like Mirga/Rey/Tai making hero killing extremely difficult as well.
____

Komeul does need a gauge increase.
Hembala something needs to be done about his battle cry that decreases the gauge. It needs to be:
- minus 1 on the gauge and not 15
- scrap it all together and give him back the direct hit
- his gauge needs to be 90+ then 72 is too low.

Skunkix
03-28-2017, 04:48 AM
I think hembala bc is well, the problem is he hits too hard in little time, so you cannot never re-summon them =/

Meo
03-28-2017, 04:51 AM
But the present problem with Hembala is I'm getting hit 2 turns in my opponent's turn (because people wait for yellow to summon him)
My turn if I'm lucky I summon a hero that can kill him (and this only happens if they gauge was already full pre-Hembala summon), if not...my opponent's turn he is activated again and my heroes die.

If Hembala is summoned early like your opponent's first turn because they are lucky which does happen, then all your hero will die before they get summoned.

NickWilde
03-28-2017, 10:00 AM
If Hembala is summoned early like your opponent's first turn because they are lucky which does happen, then all your hero will die before they get summoned.

it is a disaster to everyone when opponent using any constructed team gains that much gague in first 2 move, not just Hembala.

4552252
03-28-2017, 02:02 PM
Mine is 455004. You can find some of the more prominent people on here's ID's on this thread: http://forums.kobojo.com/showthread.php?14564-Commander-s-Social-Club


i have u in my list .. im nancy

Knightified
03-28-2017, 02:36 PM
i have u in my list .. im nancy

Oh haha didn't realize you were Nancy.

Meo
03-29-2017, 05:08 PM
it is a disaster to everyone when opponent using any constructed team gains that much gague in first 2 move, not just Hembala.

Problem is with Hembala even if it's an unconstructed team with...Wakai, Arpa, Liu and Hembala if they activate Hembala in 2 moves (seen it happen, done it before) your opponent won't even get a chance to put out their heroes. Unless after that you get extremely unlucky with yellow.

Eegge Boyinh
03-29-2017, 05:42 PM
Agreed! Hembala not only can activate first but also has the advantage of being summoned again due to the ability of slowing and cutting opponent's guage.

Meo
03-30-2017, 06:49 AM
Tali's gauge needs to be lower. She's weaker than Shi/Shura, basically weaker than any hero killer and yet her gauge is 66

Knightified
03-30-2017, 07:12 AM
Tali's gauge needs to be lower. She's weaker than Shi/Shura, basically weaker than any hero killer and yet her gauge is 66

I say just keep gauge but increase damage significantly.

Knightified
03-30-2017, 07:13 AM
Outi: Have him hit entire enemy front row, not just middle four tiles.

ProudSpud
03-31-2017, 03:47 AM
Tali needs a damage buff so her gauge is worth filling. And I agree with Knightified. Outi should hit the entire front row, with maybe a small damage decrease to balance that out.

Skunkix
03-31-2017, 06:53 AM
Outi: Have him hit entire enemy front row, not just middle four tiles.
Yeah thats a good idea!

PRAISER
03-31-2017, 12:39 PM
I just register to say that you suck!
I've been playing the game since the beginning and in season 14 the balances are ridiculously off!
You can start a battle and lose it before you have a move, the random bricks are stupid, nothing make sense any more.

Good luck.

Eegge Boyinh
03-31-2017, 07:34 PM
Haha someone had to say it I guess. I'm still waiting on the balancing myself. I had 2 of my friends give this game 2* just due to the slow balancing. My friend saw the install bar today and really had his hopes up only to see that they just updated the market/store selling gems for more $$$. That's another negative review coming up I predict. Hopefully they get this done very very soon.

Jason Tek Chun Sheng
04-01-2017, 06:04 AM
lv14? r u sure?

Oops, I meant 41245

Walther
04-03-2017, 09:01 PM
Kiit needs +6 gauge or a reduction in damage

Knightified
04-05-2017, 12:58 AM
What does everyone think about Don being changed to increase invocation speed of heroes he sends back to the deck? If Hembala can decrease invocation speed of heroes she sends out, I think Don should receive the same LEGENDARY (Gotta love puns) treatment.

Knightified
04-05-2017, 01:22 AM
On that note Floyd's invocation speed should be increased too after using his ability.

Meo
04-05-2017, 02:23 PM
What does everyone think about Don being changed to increase invocation speed of heroes he sends back to the deck? If Hembala can decrease invocation speed of heroes she sends out, I think Don should receive the same LEGENDARY (Gotta love puns) treatment.

Nah. With a gauge of 95 what use is he for invocation?

Other random thoughts. I feel Kishu might be OK even with the same 56 gauge if she didn't have that death rattle. I killed her and my opponent easily activated Xiao&Wan 3 times it a turn. -40% activation speed.

gWorldz
04-05-2017, 03:03 PM
Nah. With a gauge of 95 what use is he for invocation?

Other random thoughts. I feel Kishu might be OK even with the same 56 gauge if she didn't have that death rattle. I killed her and my opponent easily activated Xiao&Wan 3 times it a turn. -40% activation speed.
Right now normally a hero on the side of the board's activation cost requires twice as much to be played than a hero on the board. When Don sends a hero back that was in play their activation goes back to the slow double cost until those heroes are replayed. Floyd works the same way when he returns to the side is why he was mentioned as an after thought. What he was suggesting is that when Don sends heroes back and when Floyd returns they get the normal activation cost as if they had stayed in play even though they are on the side instead of requiring double the charge again to activate o.O

I think its a good idea as these heroes have a detrimental effect added worse than Hembala and Konil's slow down when they are used. Its possible to minimize Don's affect by charging the heroes before playing Don but with Floyd there is no way to improve the situation.

I don't understand why these heroes have teh send to deck ability if it can be so devastating to you o.O

Knightified
04-05-2017, 03:43 PM
Nah. With a gauge of 95 what use is he for invocation?

Other random thoughts. I feel Kishu might be OK even with the same 56 gauge if she didn't have that death rattle. I killed her and my opponent easily activated Xiao&Wan 3 times it a turn. -40% activation speed.

As Doc clarified for me, Don's warcry is incredibly counterproductive unless your hero is fully charged. It really puts a strain on how and when you can use Don effectively.

Jason Tek Chun Sheng
04-05-2017, 05:00 PM
What does everyone think about Don being changed to increase invocation speed of heroes he sends back to the deck? If Hembala can decrease invocation speed of heroes she sends out, I think Don should receive the same LEGENDARY (Gotta love puns) treatment.

That would also mean that player's will still Hembala and Don combo, it had be devastating with Ken-uh and Sarkamin as well

Jason Tek Chun Sheng
04-05-2017, 05:04 PM
Nei Li's original activation can already remove any adverse effects so what's the point of having the Battle Cry same as her main activation, maybe rework on her Battle Cry

Knightified
04-05-2017, 06:05 PM
That would also mean that player's will still Hembala and Don combo, it had be devastating with Ken-uh and Sarkamin as well

???

All it would do is allow your own heroes (which were already most likely on the field) charge faster while off the field. Without an increase in invocation speed you've essentially just doubled the amount of charge you need to use them again. So if you send a hero off the field with 0/50 gauge, he would need 10 tiles to fully charge, compared to on the field he would only need 5.

So if anything I'm just asking to make it so the heroes sent off the field can charge back up at normal or close to normal rates through and invocation speed increase. Normal in this case meaning as if they were on the field still.

Jason Tek Chun Sheng
04-05-2017, 06:17 PM
???

All it would do is allow your own heroes (which were already most likely on the field) charge faster while off the field. Without an increase in invocation speed you've essentially just doubled the amount of charge you need to use them again. So if you send a hero off the field with 0/50 gauge, he would need 10 tiles to fully charge, compared to on the field he would only need 5.

So if anything I'm just asking to make it so the heroes sent off the field can charge back up at normal or close to normal rates through and invocation speed increase. Normal in this case meaning as if they were on the field still.

I know that wouldn't that make Don too OP especially when you're running Don, Noren, Ned, Hembala or more high gauged heroes

Skunkix
04-05-2017, 06:22 PM
Maybe he can heal negative status/debuff to heroes send to deck, instead of buffing their gauge speed.

gWorldz
04-05-2017, 06:58 PM
Maybe he can heal negative status/debuff to heroes send to deck, instead of buffing their gauge speed.
The point is he shouldn't be hurting us so dramatically, slowing down many heroes that much will cost you the game. It wouldn't make him OP as at the moment there is a work around that solves the problem completely. Its just that he's a legend, they don't usually cause *bad* affects to you ... thats just not legendary worthy o.O

Don is the only Legend Hero with a negative affect that is created when you use him :ohno:

Meo
04-05-2017, 10:06 PM
The point is he shouldn't be hurting us so dramatically, slowing down many heroes that much will cost you the game. It wouldn't make him OP as at the moment there is a work around that solves the problem completely. Its just that he's a legend, they don't usually cause *bad* affects to you ... thats just not legendary worthy o.O

Don is the only Legend Hero with a negative affect that is created when you use him :ohno:

Really? Didn't know that Don's ability worked the same as Floyd and that heroes returned to deck had to use their invocation gauge and not their activation gauge. Usually when Don sends back a hero their gauge is either fully/partially charge so I never notice.

I shall pay closer attention next time.

Jason Tek Chun Sheng
04-06-2017, 01:54 PM
Charges up too fast after being played on the board and chips too much!! Seriously!

4552252
04-06-2017, 01:57 PM
Charges up too fast after being played on the board and chips too much!! Seriously!

do u come to mess up? i bet nobody will be back u ip.. seriously. pls do sth useful

Jason Tek Chun Sheng
04-06-2017, 02:29 PM
do u come to mess up? i bet nobody will be back u ip.. seriously. pls do sth useful

You know, the middle is the part where most combos happens a lot and that's what makes her so OP right now also don't forget she charges like Trr but dealt a lot more damage since healers are the type where you have to make moves to do damage, and by making move is also an advantage to possibly charge her up again

Jason Tek Chun Sheng
04-06-2017, 02:45 PM
No one here pays attention to Nei Li, her battle cry is already in her stats so might wanna rework on her battle cry

Knightified
04-06-2017, 03:43 PM
PLEASE post these in the hero balance change thread that is pinned. The community generals would really rather not move all the threads you make about hero changes into it.

That being said, I disagree. I think Mori is fine.

Meo
04-06-2017, 03:58 PM
Charges up too fast after being played on the board and chips too much!! Seriously!

Jason, Knighty is right. Do not start a new thread if it is regarding balancing heroes. Please post it here, as this is a pinned thread.

You may start a new thread about a hero if it is in relation to a BUG, you have a QUESTION (i.e. like with Don).

Thanks.

EDIT: With regards to Mori, I personally think she is fine. Plus there are heroes that need balancing alot more than her. Even with regards to buffers/tile healers (that you seem to dislike), there is Kishu who I think poses a bigger imbalance.

Jason Tek Chun Sheng
04-06-2017, 04:08 PM
Jason, Knighty is right. Do not start a new thread if it is regarding balancing heroes. Please post it here, as this is a pinned thread.

You may start a new thread about a hero if it is in relation to a BUG, you have a QUESTION (i.e. like with Don).

Thanks.

EDIT: With regards to Mori, I personally think she is fine. Plus there are heroes that need balancing alot more than her. Even with regards to buffers/tile healers (that you seem to dislike), there is Kishu who I think poses a bigger imbalance.

Ok, I will post here then, for Kishu, she is easier to counter than Mori because she is a 2 tile while Mori is a one tile, at least nerf Mori's gauge a bit though, too much chip!!

Skunkix
04-06-2017, 08:45 PM
A Mori lvl 11 have 324hp, and gauge of 65. She may be easily killed by a Waru lvl 7. Waru lvl 7 does 64*3 dmg = 192dmg with 61gauge. Its posible to cast him 2times on a turn. You may literally kill an almost lvl max mori with a just evolved waru in one turn. Mori is not op. Its fine. Now,lets asume you dont like Waru at all. You use a Falkar, lvl 5 he may do 220damage! And DR of 116. She dies with that.
I know what are you all thinking "hey falkar and waru are totally useless if they have more than 1 hero". Thats right but there is a lot of 1target heroes! Have you hear the words of the Jesus Lion (http://www.primal-legends.com/medias/heroes/s_lion_2.png)? I mean, Harron. He may kill her in one turn and he have even less gauge than Mori. You have horis to if you like to kill her... But wait THERE IS MORE....... You may freeze her. Yes Konil, Gwen, Missar may neutralize her too. And, except for Missar, these heroes have less gauge than Mori's


Mori may be countered in so many ways.

Michael Garde
04-06-2017, 10:37 PM
What skunk said and also you can add squy or shi or kiit or any of the random damage heroes for their ability to destroy buffed tiles.
Mori stronger than kishu? Haha that's laughable. Kishu is the only buffer that charges the board up with more health than she has. so kishu is already ahead there and then is easily charge again from then on.
Mori buffing the centre tils is not necessarily a strength either given almost everyone puts there heroes on the edges therefore making mori not very good at attacking heroes. also you compared it to torr ? torr will deal all its damage in one hit where ever you place it and it doesn't use up a turn to deal that damage. Like skunk said a waru vs mori with waru placed on the edge will snuff out mori in no time.
mori is fine, kishu needs the a bit of tweaking.

Meo
04-07-2017, 04:43 AM
Ok, I will post here then, for Kishu, she is easier to counter than Mori because she is a 2 tile while Mori is a one tile, at least nerf Mori's gauge a bit though, too much chip!!

The problem isn't with killing Kishu the problem comes after killing Kishu. Her death rattle is so annoying.

gWorldz
04-07-2017, 10:51 AM
BALANCING UPDATE

http://forums.kobojo.com/showthread.php?16224-10-04-BALANCE-UPDATE

Jason Tek Chun Sheng
04-07-2017, 01:21 PM
The problem isn't with killing Kishu the problem comes after killing Kishu. Her death rattle is so annoying.

That's where the time when you should already have 1 or more heroes fully charged to be prepared for those fast charging heroes

Meo
04-07-2017, 02:38 PM
That's where the time when you should already have 1 or more heroes fully charged to be prepared for those fast charging heroes

I only played random for like the last 5 seasons. If I played constructed Kishu would pose no problem at all

Plus heroes that can kill her with easy like Harron/Horis are a bigger pain to move.

Meo
04-07-2017, 02:40 PM
BALANCING UPDATE

http://forums.kobojo.com/showthread.php?16224-10-04-BALANCE-UPDATE

English version:

http://forums.kobojo.com/showthread.php?16225-10-04-BALANCE-UPDATE

Jason Tek Chun Sheng
04-07-2017, 03:40 PM
I only played random for like the last 5 seasons. If I played constructed Kishu would pose no problem at all

Plus heroes that can kill her with easy like Harron/Horis are a bigger pain to move.

I had rather keep them until the endgame or when things start to get messy

Jason Tek Chun Sheng
04-09-2017, 07:26 PM
No one is starting a balancing thread now, is the game fully balance now?? :P

Estefan Rodriguez
04-10-2017, 12:24 AM
Saal has ruined pvp...thats all i see or run into, Saal and hembala, with that your completely locked in, and if you have horrible RNG...its impossible to win...

Knightified
04-10-2017, 05:21 AM
Saal has ruined pvp...thats all i see or run into, Saal and hembala, with that your completely locked in, and if you have horrible RNG...its impossible to win...

My current constructed is Kishu, Ned, Hembala, and Saal. It's quite a mean team, that's for sure. We'll see what happens once heroes get changed with this recent balance.

Skunkix
04-10-2017, 06:07 AM
My current constructed is Kishu, Ned, Hembala, and Saal.


LOL

http://i1.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/original/000/015/266/Z7HeRxU.png

Knightified
04-10-2017, 06:58 AM
LOL

http://i1.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/original/000/015/266/Z7HeRxU.png

Pretty much lol. I design constructed teams for quick n' easy wins. When I've got the time I do random though, it's more fun given all the unexpected factors.

NickWilde
04-10-2017, 08:43 AM
Saal is making constructed pvp into a game of fortune, who can get max combo with blue & yellow will win, just like a Paper-Scissor-Rock.

gWorldz
04-10-2017, 10:22 AM
I apologize for the delay --'

Please continue the discussion in Season 15's Live Balance Discussion (http://forums.kobojo.com/showthread.php?16238-Live-Balance-Discussion-Season-15) :blush: