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View Full Version : There should be a New League



Jason Tek Chun Sheng
04-22-2017, 06:22 AM
The gap between Lion League and Phoenix League is 700 ELO points apart and that's quite a bug gap so I'm suggesting a new League at like 1400 or 1500, let's call it Dragon League or Alligator League something like that

Jason Tek Chun Sheng
04-22-2017, 12:30 PM
Any feedbacks??

Knightified
04-22-2017, 01:15 PM
Nah. Phoenix was implemented because people were getting crazy amount of ELO over the season with no reward. It's basically the "advanced lion league." There's no need for another league in between them.

Jason Tek Chun Sheng
04-22-2017, 01:40 PM
Nah. Phoenix was implemented because people were getting crazy amount of ELO over the season with no reward. It's basically the "advanced lion league." There's no need for another league in between them.

Doesn't that mean that we have to push ELO points every 2 weeks, I don't push -_-

Ki343
04-22-2017, 06:06 PM
I have friends that desperately try to get to 1800 but just can't do it. with a league in-between they would have a reachable goal at least. I don't see how it would harm anyone, since the Phoenix chest would give better rewards still. it only gives the "weaker" ones a chance to upgrade their heroes too.

ProudSpud
04-23-2017, 03:08 AM
I have friends that desperately try to get to 1800 but just can't do it. with a league in-between they would have a reachable goal at least. I don't see how it would harm anyone, since the Phoenix chest would give better rewards still. it only gives the "weaker" ones a chance to upgrade their heroes too.

I'm one of those who just can't seem to reach 1800. I agree, it wouldn't harm to have a league between them. The Phoenix could still be the only league that gives 2 legendaries.

gWorldz
04-23-2017, 04:35 AM
I agree with Knightified on this one, Phoenix is not something everyone should be able to achieve each season, its something to strive for and work hard to obtain. I personally wanted it to be a 1000 ELO gap between the Lion and Phoenix, I wouldn't be getting it but it would be what it was created to be an elite of the elite. It also makes since that you have to push to get it, the problem with Lion league was that almost everyone can get there eventually and stay there season to season with little to no work. I've actually pushed for a reset to 500 each season for all leagues but very seriously doubt that will ever happen. Personally, if I spend the time to climb I want it to be worth it and feel like it was a milestone to get there.

This is coming from someone that would actually be in the new league you propose, so I know where you are coming from. If you push though, something that should be required to be at the top in any game, you can get 1800 too o.O

I would love to see some changes to the leagues system though, to balance it better with the current ELO system I'd propose the following ELO numbers to correct for ELO inflation caused by Random Arena's 2x XP/ELO ...

Chick League : 0 ~ 500
Mouse League: 500 ~ 600
Cat League: 600 ~ 700
Stag League: 700 ~ 800
Bull League: 800 ~ 1000

*** Above resets to the minimum required for current league at the end of the season, with below resetting to 1000 ELO and Wolf League

Wolf League: 1000 ~ 1200
Bear League: 1200 ~ 1600
Lion League 1600 ~ 2000
Phoenix League 2000+

I also think League rewards at the moment are too generous, that's why I think ELO should be raised. That would keep me in Bear or perhaps Lion League when I push myself. We've suggested system alternatives in the past also and I would prefer to have something like that implemented because it is more tangible and gives you a better relation to your rank with a % system.

Chick League : 100%
Mouse League: 50%
Cat League: 30%
Stag League: 20%
Bull League: 10%
Wolf League: 5%
Bear League: 3%
Lion League 2%
Phoenix League 1%

... but that system means you play more you climb up more but you miss a couple days playing and you have no hope of catching other players unless they slow down or go into losses o.O

All systems have issues, our current one is inflation based, we don't need more leagues but perhaps adjustment to the number of ELO required to obtain the league and what our ELO resets to each seasons end ...

I might change my mind tomorrow but for todays thats how I feel about it -_-

Jason Tek Chun Sheng
04-23-2017, 04:48 AM
I agree with Knightified on this one, Phoenix is not something everyone should be able to achieve each season, its something to strive for and work hard to obtain. I personally wanted it to be a 1000 ELO gap between the Lion and Phoenix, I wouldn't be getting it but it would be what it was created to be an elite of the elite. It also makes since that you have to push to get it, the problem with Lion league was that almost everyone can get there eventually and stay there season to season with little to no work. I've actually pushed for a reset to 500 each season for all leagues but very seriously doubt that will ever happen. Personally, if I spend the time to climb I want it to be worth it and feel like it was a milestone to get there.

This is coming from someone that would actually be in the new league you propose, so I know where you are coming from. If you push though, something that should be required to be at the top in any game, you can get 1800 too o.O

I would love to see some changes to the leagues system though, to balance it better with the current ELO system I'd propose the following ELO numbers to correct for ELO inflation caused by Random Arena's 2x XP/ELO ...

Chick League : 0 ~ 500
Mouse League: 500 ~ 600
Cat League: 600 ~ 700
Stag League: 700 ~ 800
Bull League: 800 ~ 1000

*** Above resets to the minimum required for current league at the end of the season, with below resetting to 1000 ELO and Wolf League

Wolf League: 1000 ~ 1200
Bear League: 1200 ~ 1600
Lion League 1600 ~ 2000
Phoenix League 2000+

I also think League rewards at the moment are too generous, that's why I think ELO should be raised. That would keep me in Bear or perhaps Lion League when I push myself. We've suggested system alternatives in the past also and I would prefer to have something like that implemented because it is more tangible and gives you a better relation to your rank with a % system.

Chick League : 100%
Mouse League: 50%
Cat League: 30%
Stag League: 20%
Bull League: 10%
Wolf League: 5%
Bear League: 3%
Lion League 2%
Phoenix League 1%

... but that system means you play more you climb up more but you miss a couple days playing and you have no hope of catching other players unless they slow down or go into losses o.O

All systems have issues, our current one is inflation based, we don't need more leagues but perhaps adjustment to the number of ELO required to obtain the league and what our ELO resets to each seasons end ...

I might change my mind tomorrow but for todays thats how I feel about it -_-

What Koboojo have to change is the amount of ELO points you get per battle, average in random you just get at least 10 ELO Points and if you wnt to push from Lion to Phoenix it would take a total of 36 hours since one battle is roughly 30 mins in random and not just that you can also lose in some battles which makes you lose points, therefore increasing the time taken to reach there

gWorldz
04-23-2017, 05:01 AM
What Koboojo have to change is the amount of ELO points you get per battle, average in random you just get at least 10 ELO Points and if you wnt to push from Lion to Phoenix it would take a total of 36 hours since one battle is roughly 30 mins in random and not just that you can also lose in some battles which makes you lose points, therefore increasing the time taken to reach there

I make 10-16 ELO per battle every 10 minutes, I spend a couple hours a day playing usually and average about 100 ELO per 2 sets of 5 random arena matches. So for me going from Lion to Phoenix should never be more than 8-12 hours. Consensus among top players I know (and me but I'm not a top player) is that we lose 2-3 matches at most out of every 10 we play.

As for losing affecting my ELO points, yea that happens but I have to lose several matches to actually feel it. On average I loose 1-3 points per loss, so I need to loose 5-8 matches before I start losing points earned from a single win o.O

If you manage all 3 sets of 5/5 for your battle chest per day, for me that's about 2-3 hours of game play with 15 wins and 5 or fewer losses and 100+ points per day easy :D

... also note when I lose a match its usually less than 5 min for that match.

Jason Tek Chun Sheng
04-23-2017, 05:19 AM
I make 10-16 ELO per battle every 10 minutes, I spend a couple hours a day playing usually and average about 100 ELO per 2 sets of 5 random arena matches. So for me going from Lion to Phoenix should never be more than 8-12 hours. Consensus among top players I know (and me but I'm not a top player) is that we lose 2-3 matches at most out of every 10 we play.

As for losing affecting my ELO points, yea that happens but I have to lose several matches to actually feel it. On average I loose 1-3 points per loss, so I need to loose 5-8 matches before I start losing points earned from a single win o.O

If you manage all 3 sets of 5/5 for your battle chest per day, for me that's about 2-3 hours of game play with 15 wins and 5 or fewer losses and 100+ points per day easy :D

... also note when I lose a match its usually less than 5 min for that match.

Wouldn't you get bored?? -_-

gWorldz
04-23-2017, 05:31 AM
Wouldn't you get bored?? -_-

If you play classic yea, but playing random prevents me from getting bored with it. I don't usually play non stop though I play while watching TV and writing mods. For me every 10 minutes of game play is also accompanied by 10 minutes of video editing and prep time between matches, a 5/5 set takes me about 2 hours to do while I'm watching TV but over an hour of that is time spent *NOT* playing.

10 minute match followed by 5 minutes of video editing and then 2-3 minutes playing a quest match to full charge the random team I had and get the screen capture I want ready for photoshop to create my video overlay and a couple minutes for post processing. Then I go about my day working on mods and web programming until its time to do it again, or I nap depending on the time of day.
;)

Jason Tek Chun Sheng
04-23-2017, 05:33 AM
If you play classic yea, but playing random prevents me from getting bored with it. I don't usually play non stop though I play while watching TV and writing mods. For me every 10 minutes of game play is also accompanied by 10 minutes of video editing and prep time between matches. a 5/5 set takes me about 2 hours to do while I'm watching TV.

10 minute match followed by 5 minutes of video editing and then 2-3 minutes playing a quest match to full charge the random team I had and get the screen capture I want ready for photoshop to create my video overlay and a couple minutes for post processing. Then I go about my day working on mods and web programming until its time to do it again, or I nap depending on the time of day.
;)

Multi-tasking!

gWorldz
04-23-2017, 05:38 AM
Multi-tasking!

Yea have to lol

I probably spend 6-12 hours a day, or more on Primal Legends but my actual game time is usually around 2-3 hours per day.
:O_O:

Meo
04-23-2017, 06:47 AM
I disagree with a league in the middle. Reason is simple. Look at the prize.

Lion League:
20000 coins
1 Legendary Card
28 Epic Card
422 Common/Rare Cards (possibility of epic but unlikely)

Phoenix League:
25000 coins
2 Legendary
35 Epic
445 Common/Rare (possibility of Epic)

The difference is almost negligible (except for the legendary)
5000 coins
1 Legendary
7 Epic
23 Common/Rare

Creating a mid-league for 2500 coins, 3 epics and 11 common/rare is not worth it. Might as well hope you get an 8 hr chest.

Jason Tek Chun Sheng
04-23-2017, 07:31 AM
I disagree with a league in the middle. Reason is simple. Look at the prize.

Lion League:
20000 coins
1 Legendary Card
28 Epic Card
422 Common/Rare Cards (possibility of epic but unlikely)

Phoenix League:
25000 coins
2 Legendary
35 Epic
445 Common/Rare (possibility of Epic)

The difference is almost negligible (except for the legendary)
5000 coins
1 Legendary
7 Epic
23 Common/Rare

Creating a mid-league for 2500 coins, 3 epics and 11 common/rare is not worth it. Might as well hope you get an 8 hr chest.

Then why not increase the rewards for Phoenix League while the "middle league" will have the reward of the old Phoenix League

gWorldz
04-23-2017, 08:10 AM
Then why not increase the rewards for Phoenix League while the "middle league" will have the reward of the old Phoenix League

Phoenix is getting enough as is o.O

I look at it this way every season, Lion to Phoenix is no big deal if I make it I make it if I don't, no worries, with exception to the guaranteed legend I can get those rewards form a couple arena matches. Yes its a little extra work but it also gets me closer to Phoenix and will often get me to Phoenix with that keep on going mentality, each arena set rewarding me more than the difference of the 2 leagues anyway.

It all goes back to the point that you should have to *work* and *push* yourself to get from Lion to Phoenix. Every other league is just handed back to you at the end of the season, Phoenix is special, Phoenix needs to stay special.

I'd be happier with Phoenix if *only* the top 100 players in the game ever got it!

To me top 100 is special and should reward those players with something unique ;)

I wouldn't want more rewards or another league i'd prefer having them adjusted, that long run each season from 1100 to 1800 is one of the best parts of the game for many of us. once you get 200-300 above 1100 you get thirsty for 1800 cause you feel like you are working for something special and you know if you don't make it all that progress will feel like wasted time o.O

:omg: .... it just keeps me going when I get to that feeling! ;)

ProudSpud
04-23-2017, 08:32 AM
Phoenix is getting enough as is o.O

I look at it this way every season, Lion to Phoenix is no big deal if I make it I make it if I don't, no worries, with exception to the guaranteed legend I can get those rewards form a couple arena matches. Yes its a little extra work but it also gets me closer to Phoenix and will often get me to Phoenix with that keep on going mentality, each arena set rewarding me more than the difference of the 2 leagues anyway.

It all goes back to the point that you should have to *work* and *push* yourself to get from Lion to Phoenix. Every other league is just handed back to you at the end of the season, Phoenix is special, Phoenix needs to stay special.

I'd be happier with Phoenix if *only* the top 100 players in the game ever got it!

To me top 100 is special and should reward those players with something unique ;)

I wouldn't want more rewards or another league i'd prefer having them adjusted, that long run each season from 1100 to 1800 is one of the best parts of the game for many of us. once you get 200-300 above 1100 you get thirsty for 1800 cause you feel like you are working for something special and you know if you don't make it all that progress will feel like wasted time o.O

:omg: .... it just keeps me going when I get to that feeling! ;)

Alright, I see what you mean. Phoenix is special through the hard work that gets you there and I understand why it should stay that way. It requires dedication, and it rewards you for that. The middle league would kind of ruin that, so I get why it shouldn't exist. It'll take me a while to be able to get there but maybe someday I will. That's gonna be my goal for now! ;)

Jason Tek Chun Sheng
04-23-2017, 09:33 AM
Phoenix is getting enough as is o.O

I look at it this way every season, Lion to Phoenix is no big deal if I make it I make it if I don't, no worries, with exception to the guaranteed legend I can get those rewards form a couple arena matches. Yes its a little extra work but it also gets me closer to Phoenix and will often get me to Phoenix with that keep on going mentality, each arena set rewarding me more than the difference of the 2 leagues anyway.

It all goes back to the point that you should have to *work* and *push* yourself to get from Lion to Phoenix. Every other league is just handed back to you at the end of the season, Phoenix is special, Phoenix needs to stay special.

I'd be happier with Phoenix if *only* the top 100 players in the game ever got it!

To me top 100 is special and should reward those players with something unique ;)

I wouldn't want more rewards or another league i'd prefer having them adjusted, that long run each season from 1100 to 1800 is one of the best parts of the game for many of us. once you get 200-300 above 1100 you get thirsty for 1800 cause you feel like you are working for something special and you know if you don't make it all that progress will feel like wasted time o.O

:omg: .... it just keeps me going when I get to that feeling! ;)

Hmm... How about making the "Weekly Resets" to 1300 once you reach to 1300+ so players wouldn't somehow drop back to Bear League at the beginning of every season

Meo
04-23-2017, 09:35 AM
Then why not increase the rewards for Phoenix League while the "middle league" will have the reward of the old Phoenix League

Because by your argument...people that are getting 2000+ would want some Dragon League.

Then there will be people trapped between 1800 and 2000 that wants some Unicorn League and it's just opening an entire can of worms.


Hmm... How about making the "Weekly Resets" to 1300 once you reach to 1300+ so players wouldn't somehow drop back to Bear League at the beginning of every season

Reset level is Lion League 1100. Bear league is 900-1100. They don't make it 1300 because they want the Phoenix League to be special but since there are tons of people getting it, it's really not as special as they want. Basically if you have time to grind, you'd make it.

Jason Tek Chun Sheng
04-23-2017, 09:52 AM
[COLOR="#008080"]Reset level is Lion League 1100. Bear league is 900-1100. They don't make it 1300 because they want the Phoenix League to be special but since there are tons of people getting it, it's really not as special as they want. Basically if you have time to grind, you'd make it.

hen the season resets, everyone at 1100+ will be drop back to 1100 and what if thy somehow went on a losing streak and drop back to Bear League

Meo
04-23-2017, 10:04 AM
hen the season resets, everyone at 1100+ will be drop back to 1100 and what if thy somehow went on a losing streak and drop back to Bear League

In random you win 1, you can afford to lose 5 and not be dropped into the bear league. Even if you played constructed and not random, you just on average need to get a higher win percentage than a lost percentage to stay in the Lion League. I think if you can't get a 50% win rate, than you got to Lion League by chance and should be dropped to the Bear League.

Having it as 1300 instead of 1100 means someone could concede 20 games in random and remain in the Lion League. Doesn't make sense

Jason Tek Chun Sheng
04-23-2017, 10:44 AM
In random you win 1, you can afford to lose 5 and not be dropped into the bear league. Even if you played constructed and not random, you just on average need to get a higher win percentage than a lost percentage to stay in the Lion League. I think if you can't get a 50% win rate, than you got to Lion League by chance and should be dropped to the Bear League.

Having it as 1300 instead of 1100 means someone could concede 20 games in random and remain in the Lion League. Doesn't make sense

Wouldn't that just mean there will be more work to Phoenix League if you drop back to the Bear League

gWorldz
04-23-2017, 11:08 AM
Wouldn't that just mean there will be more work to Phoenix League if you drop back to the Bear League

Yes, but if you doing that you never gonna get to and keep Phoenix anyway, it means you have hit your current ceiling and need to play more and level your heroes.

If you don't have to work to get something you never going to appreciate it when you get it and there is no goal to push for. A halfway save point like in children's platformer video games makes the goal less meaningful.


“Nothing in the world is worth having or worth doing unless it means effort, pain, difficulty… I have never in my life envied a human being who led an easy life. I have envied a great many people who led difficult lives and led them well.”

Phoenix should be worth having ;)

Meo
04-23-2017, 11:10 AM
Wouldn't that just mean there will be more work to Phoenix League if you drop back to the Bear League

They want you to work for the Phoenix League. Right now you need to climb 700 elo to reach it, the way you're stating, it's only 500 elo and people can reach that in a week easily.

And no it's not more work if you start at 1300 elo, you just concede 20 matches on random and stop playing. You'd lose 2 elo x 20 = 40 elo, maybe less against someone of high level. Basically that same person can stay in the Lion league for 5+ seasons doing nothing but conceding matches.

Jason Tek Chun Sheng
04-23-2017, 12:29 PM
They want you to work for the Phoenix League. Right now you need to climb 700 elo to reach it, the way you're stating, it's only 500 elo and people can reach that in a week easily.

And no it's not more work if you start at 1300 elo, you just concede 20 matches on random and stop playing. You'd lose 2 elo x 20 = 40 elo, maybe less against someone of high level. Basically that same person can stay in the Lion league for 5+ seasons doing nothing but conceding matches.


I meant more work when you drop back to Bear League since every season it resets you to 1100 which behind you is just at the edge of Bear League

gWorldz
04-23-2017, 04:18 PM
I meant more work when you drop back to Bear League since every season it resets you to 1100 which behind you is just at the edge of Bear League

... even then you can lose 3 or more matches with no win and stay in Lion as long as you don't close and reopen the app :O_O:

... but to be honest a smart move is to drop to bear to collect the reward for obtaining Lion each season ;)

Its not a lot but those rubies come in handy :D

Jason Tek Chun Sheng
04-24-2017, 10:16 AM
... even then you can lose 3 or more matches with no win and stay in Lion as long as you don't close and reopen the app :O_O:

... but to be honest a smart move is to drop to bear to collect the reward for obtaining Lion each season ;)

Its not a lot but those rubies come in handy :D

Rubies as in dropping and reaching back up to Leagues or rubies from the season chest?

gWorldz
04-24-2017, 12:19 PM
Rubies as in dropping and reaching back up to Leagues or rubies from the season chest?

Dropping and climbing back up ;)

Meo
04-24-2017, 02:33 PM
I meant more work when you drop back to Bear League since every season it resets you to 1100 which behind you is just at the edge of Bear League

That in essence means you're winning like less than 10% of your matches playing random or 33% of your matches playing constructed. If your point range stays around 1100 from the beginning of the season to the end of the season. By the end of the season everyone you win will be worth like 14-20 elo (in random) and losing 0-1, even if you play constructed you are winning 7-10 elo and losing 0-3.

Jason Tek Chun Sheng
04-25-2017, 02:40 PM
Dropping and climbing back up ;)

Wait there's such thing??

gWorldz
04-27-2017, 04:46 AM
Wait there's such thing??

yes, once per season you can, doing it multiple times has no affect though ;)

Jason Tek Chun Sheng
04-27-2017, 03:40 PM
yes, once per season you can, doing it multiple times has no affect though ;)

Isn't that broken because players can farm for rubies?

Michael Garde
04-27-2017, 08:21 PM
Isn't that broken because players can farm for rubies?
Like doc just said you only get the prize for going up into a particular league once per season. So no you can't farm