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[K] Hugo
07-23-2015, 01:30 PM
Psy Captains, we would like to hear your feedbacks regarding the matchmaking in PvP.

Thank you for your cooperation, feel free to share your thoughts and discuss this topic with us!

Howard
07-23-2015, 01:53 PM
It would be nice if it isn't always dependent on getting matched with people around your rank. There are often times when I am trying to progress up the ladder, and the people around me are all lower evos, and making my progression super slow with +10s

The Nam
07-23-2015, 01:54 PM
Well to my experience that i see top 1 % full of cheater
How do i know this ?(dont even ask)
Alot of guy have their evo higher than thier fame
Also u guy should make "block cheat " app . Like other app they have it

(Can i have my account back plz)

[K] Pogolina
07-23-2015, 02:14 PM
(Can i have my account back plz)

Did you contact support about this, Nam?

Thanks,
A

[K] Hugo
07-23-2015, 02:18 PM
It would be nice if it isn't always dependent on getting matched with people around your rank. There are often times when I am trying to progress up the ladder, and the people around me are all lower evos, and making my progression super slow with +10s

Interesting, if I understand correctly for you the EVO should be more important in the matchmaking the the rank, because evo is what determines the most accurately the power of the player?

Howard
07-23-2015, 02:48 PM
Hugo;35237']Interesting, if I understand correctly for you the EVO should be more important in the matchmaking the the rank, because evo is what determines the most accurately the power of the player?

That is correct. Say I am in the top 100, in this group of people there are a few high evo players, but there are also a lot of lower evo players (they get to this ranking easier due to their lower evo and gaining more points in wins). Whereas I am stuck trying to get into the top 100 because everyone I get matched with is lower evo, and thus only gaining 10 points. While the lower evos get much more points.

There was another time when I was in the top 3, and I wanted to get to the top. They had 2000 more points then me, so I needed to win 200 matches just to tie them since everyone I got matched with was lower evo.

The Nam
07-23-2015, 02:49 PM
Pogolina;35230']Did you contact support about this, Nam?

Thanks,
A

Of course i am
But they wont respond
I thouht u guy were the support team

[K] Pogolina
07-23-2015, 02:53 PM
Of course i am
But they wont respond
I thouht u guy were the support team

In that case, please be a little more patient, Nam. A support agent will look into your situation as soon as possible.
(Please provide your ticket #)

Thank you for your understanding.

John MacDonald
07-23-2015, 03:26 PM
Nam - You say 'Don't even ask', but... How do you know they're cheaters? There are three options:

1) You are infiltrating a global conspiracy of MGG cheaters dedicated to crushing all those who oppose them(In MGG).
2) You are part of a global conspiracy spying on us and know exactly what we're doing at any time. You happen to be watching these particular people cheat.
3) They told you.
4) You don't know.

Which is it? As always, if there's a fourth option, just let me know what it is.

Frankly, I don't really care about the cheaters that much. Getting in to the top 100 isn't super important to me. I still get in the top 1% when I hit the 50 mark.

Ashik Rafeek
07-23-2015, 03:42 PM
How About According To Their Postion Like Elite Veteran and GrandMaster Along with the a Acceptable Fame and EVO.
Some Times we get Very Big Player if he has same points with us but normally we cant win it so its better to someone who is on our own size
my evo is 40 i can expect players upto evo 60 not more :)


Sorry For Bad English :)

[K] Hugo
07-23-2015, 04:20 PM
Thank you for your feedback Ashik!

On a side note fellow Psy Captains cheat is off topic as this thread is about matchmaking only.
In this discussion, please only talk about the matchmaking aspect (how players are match against others) so we can have a constructive discussion about this. :darwinsmile:

Erdagon Faldan
07-23-2015, 04:33 PM
That is correct. Say I am in the top 100, in this group of people there are a few high evo players, but there are also a lot of lower evo players (they get to this ranking easier due to their lower evo and gaining more points in wins). Whereas I am stuck trying to get into the top 100 because everyone I get matched with is lower evo, and thus only gaining 10 points. While the lower evos get much more points.

There was another time when I was in the top 3, and I wanted to get to the top. They had 2000 more points then me, so I needed to win 200 matches just to tie them since everyone I got matched with was lower evo.

Not wanting to beat a dead horse , but I have to agree with Howard here . If it would have been like he suggested from te beginning , you would never have had the whole Nerf Brittany/Buranka debate . The reason is that with Evo ranked battles , the impact of them wouldn't have been as bad as they were in the past .

Kaiju Possum
07-23-2015, 08:41 PM
I agree... I'd rather be paired up due to the Evo level. While I'm not as big on PVP (in general, not just this game) so don't really try to get to the top, I find it annoying when paired with someone so far above me I don't stand a chance... and likewise feel bad when paired with someone where I don't have a mutant lower than all three of theirs combined. (Personal feeling of fairness more than point gain/loss)

Micha? Mym Mogi?ko
07-23-2015, 10:59 PM
I do agree with the idea of Evo matchmaking. Although im not so sure if evo level influence on points gaining after win.
And on the other side what happens when fe. 30 evo gets to top 3%, and there wont be enemies on his lvl?

Grim Jack
07-24-2015, 05:06 AM
Before throwing in my 2 cents, I'd like to know what Kobojo's intention is with regards to PVP?

Is it supposed to be a free-for-all, strongest survives, higher EVO = better chance of making it to the top?

Is it supposed to be as fair as possible so that all players, regardless of their EVO, have the same chance to reach the top?

Is displaying players' ranks an important factor? Do you want to create an atmosphere of competition and 'I'm higher than you' one-upmanship?

Do you want W/L ratio, ATK/DEF win ratio, win/loss vs EVO/Fame/rank, number of fights fought, or what, to determine rank?

If you'd like input, I need to know your goals.

If a complete overhaul is even option, would you like ideas on how we think it ought to be?

Thanks in advance!

GJ-

Kaiju Possum
07-24-2015, 04:25 PM
I do agree with the idea of Evo matchmaking. Although im not so sure if evo level influence on points gaining after win.
And on the other side what happens when fe. 30 evo gets to top 3%, and there wont be enemies on his lvl?

Well... I've found myself paired against people in higher tiers than I am as is... so I'm thinking that a level 30 in the top 3% would just get paired against someone from a lower tier. A bigger issue is probably the really high leveled people, where there simply aren't that many of them to have opponents of their level, or be limited to fighting the same few people over and over.

Unless you maybe do a level balance like people were suggesting for the Brittany tags before (where a low level summoning a high level would summon a comparable level instead), bringing the AI controlled defenders up to their level (since scaling players down might be a headache)... but that would probably open new complaints.

Iskandar Rider
07-25-2015, 06:46 PM
I got the perfect solution there should be a difficulty level like a button you can push and has easy medium or hard easy will be people your rank medium will be people a little bit above your rank and hard with the people way above your rank And by rank I mean a combination of level and rank in pvp I see other games do this that got a perfect PvP setup.

DanandJeanine Lowe
07-25-2015, 06:55 PM
While matchmaking is never easy in these games, my suggestion would be, if possible, to create a system where you choose between 3 - 5 opponents. These 3-5 opponents would range from a lower to higher evo than the player fighting. This way, one could risk fighting someone higher so as to move up or fight someone at a similar evo or lower evo so as to not risk going lower.

Grim Jack
07-26-2015, 03:47 AM
While matchmaking is never easy in these games, my suggestion would be, if possible, to create a system where you choose between 3 - 5 opponents. These 3-5 opponents would range from a lower to higher evo than the player fighting. This way, one could risk fighting someone higher so as to move up or fight someone at a similar evo or lower evo so as to not risk going lower.

That is the best idea I've heard so far!

Nio Bran
07-28-2015, 06:08 AM
Pvp is too hard .i still at low evo and all the 30-40 coming at me like crazy.i cant deal with that

Sanja Milanovic
07-28-2015, 10:17 AM
i REALLY DON'T UNDERSTAND THIS TREASURE HUNT THINGY....WHERE TO LOOK HOW TO FIND AN ICON....i'M TOTALLY LOST :'(

Ben McCusker
07-28-2015, 10:22 AM
The PvP IMO is near damn broken. I used to be able to get into top 10% with my level 19 silvers. Now with similarily leveled Gold Mutants [Apex, King Steven, Nebulon] I am barely able to get into Veterans league now. Going against people with 120 total levels. Double my max amount of levels at this time. Or 70 max levels but with full gold. It's completely unfair because these people just play PvP once with bad mutants so they get low ranked and just go on the defence, no one being able to beat them because they outclass them by a mile.

Kenneth Pocaigue
07-28-2015, 01:21 PM
Currently the PvP system is actually quite sound... You get matched with people closest to your evo and closest to your point range.. If you "ALWAYS" get Lower evo players that is because your evo range hasn't been putting out much for PvP. In the middle of the season I would upgrade my evo and see my opponent pool change accordingly, so it's not a matchmaking flaw, but a problem with player motivation to climb the ladder so that the disparity is less of a problem. Having a system where you are matched against ONLY people of your evo range isn't as nearly as effective as one might think. Why? Well what if everyone in your respective evo ranges decided not to play PvP? you get matched with people that aren't playing yet continue to gather points from them regardless? See how broken that is? In the upper echelons of evo tiers, the population is very very small.... Would it be fair is the top two Evo players could only see each other due to that system and only be able to farm points from each other? Currently the gap is large enough to merit a noticeable point gain for the lesser of the two and since you only lose what 5 points from someone greater, they can easily abuse the system to be the top two PvP players by just farming each other. Broken idea. Ranking needs to be accounted for if that system has any chance to work, and if anyone actually pays attention to PvP... Evo AND Ranking are taken into account when you are cycled your opponents. My personal opinion on what needs to be done with PvP is simple... Rewards.. Not handouts... REWARDS!!! Meaning players should have better incentives to climb the PvP ladder... we already have those? yeah we have a total of 5 rewards for PvP.. thats pretty generous.. except the season is way too long for just 5 things. Most players can just wait till the last day to make 50 attacks and breach GM tier effortlessly.. or even make 3-5 attacks per day until the last day then finish up the rest.. with a little pool of credit and an eye for potential opponents a player can VERY EASILY take that top 1% and not have to care about climbing into the top 500 of 100 or anything like that.. Why waste the time? They get no rewards for being top 100 except the ability to say "My E-PEEN is bigger" ... You can definitely rework the Tiers and qualifications so that it isn't attack dependent... and actually make it dependent on points... Leaving it the way it is the entire base can unanimously decide to keep the GM average Low so that anyone can get it... Or just be lazy and satisfied with making it that the average won't even budge.. PvP progression... Was so much MORE fun when Brit had her hammah!! But thats just my opinion..

Jonathan Wharton
08-01-2015, 07:03 PM
What about some different types of PVP, like Silver Mutants only, Legendary Mutants, Single Gene Combat, just something to mix it up so you are not always using your best three mutants and you can play some of your other Mutants that just sit on the bench. Make it a different PVP every other week. I don't know, just wish we could use some of our other mutants.
Also, what if we could set what mutant we want going into Tag for other players, we already set our defense team, why not set our Tag Mutant?

Kenneth Pocaigue
08-03-2015, 12:37 PM
Ehh... Tags, while a frustration to many.. is not that big of a deal once you get used to it.. Setting your tag is really easy and only requires patience at the most to keep a steady tag... As for your PvP suggestion.. I actually like the idea of having Different "Divisions" in PvP... Standard, Bronze, Silver, Gold, Platinum.. Each a separate PvP arena where different Metagames can evolve... Having Elite Star limitations per division so that a player is actually forced to use ONLY mutants up to the Division star (I.E. Bronze Division allows No stars and Bronze mutants only)... Of course for this to work there also should be restrictions on Evo levels for entry.... meaning each Division would require a player to have upgraded to certain evo's in order to compete in that Division, Should be relevant to the star rating system used in breeding.. But it is a lot of work and coding and at the end of the day.. it might actually be more detrimental than it would be helpful.. more PvP modes would mean players need to micromanage each of them and that could be quite tedious.... (would increase playtime due to players feeling the need maximize rewards)

Daniela P
08-04-2015, 04:20 PM
I have a problem playing PVP matches. I can fight only bigger evo than me. This is not a problem but I always receive 10 points . And I always loose 20 when they beat me. Even my evo lvl is 40 and theirs is 45. Never happened to me in the previous PVP tournaments. What can be the reason?

Miroslav D?aja
08-05-2015, 09:52 PM
It would be good in the future if u make a patch for PvP to choose two types of fight.
1. With tag team.
2. Without tag team.
Best regards to MGG team.

Jin Maurice
08-06-2015, 09:29 AM
Tag team still ruin the pvp, that's all

john mentex
08-08-2015, 01:10 AM
I have a problem playing PVP matches. I can fight only bigger evo than me. This is not a problem but I always receive 10 points . And I always loose 20 when they beat me. Even my evo lvl is 40 and theirs is 45. Never happened to me in the previous PVP tournaments. What can be the reason?
Platinum stars!

Terry Miller
08-11-2015, 03:35 PM
Well, here's what I want to know. I don't know if this has to do with matchmaking or not, but I'd like to know how someone is in the top 15 with 54 wins, 166 losses and 31,996 points. That's 592 1/2 points per win if he didn't lose a single point on the 166 losses. I've never gotten over like 60 on a single fight, and that was my first fight in a particular tournament. Somebody is going to have to explain that point structure to me.

Kenneth Pocaigue
08-11-2015, 04:38 PM
Well, here's what I want to know. I don't know if this has to do with matchmaking or not, but I'd like to know how someone is in the top 15 with 54 wins, 166 losses and 31,996 points. That's 592 1/2 points per win if he didn't lose a single point on the 166 losses. I've never gotten over like 60 on a single fight, and that was my first fight in a particular tournament. Somebody is going to have to explain that point structure to me.

Basically how that works is the player with those wins gets them from extremely high leveld opponents... Theres a number of ways this can be accomplished without directly effecting the game mechanics and therefor not be considered cheating. I can think of one..
The player can attack an extremely high evo opponent and win with that opponents help. That opponent can leave 1 max evo Mutant in defense with 2 level 1 mutants at max star rating, the player would only need to kill the max level with a high powered tag in order to secure a win and reap tons of points. Then the higher Evo opponent can revenge and lose on purpose by attacking with a max evo team and then force quitting or leaving the match.. resulting in another win for the player and another massive boost in points. They can sit comfortably ahead of everyone and wait until their high evo friend catches up in points. They can then shuffle opponents with credits until they get their friend again and repeat the process.. their friend can also do the same and shuffle with credits... because the low evo is ahead of the majority already due to the massive point boosting.. they would be much easier to find in the early stages of the season. With some patience and an understanding of the shuffle mechanic, they can continuously find each other and let the lower evo player take the wins and farm the points... this can be done with a friend... or with an alternate account... The other way is if they continuously challenge stronger opponents and win.... it isnt hard really... before the tag nerf I was able to make it into the top 100 PvP with very little attacks by shuffling for much higher evo opponents...After the tag nerf it was a little bit harder... but still PvP progression slowed so much that it was still a joke to need effort to do so..

Maxime Guertin
08-16-2015, 04:05 AM
Is it me or when I put 3 platinum mutants on defense team I get attacked by much stronger players?

Also: what's this thing I read about the number of points we gain depends on our WHOLE collection of mutants? Am I suposed to stop buying mutants to have better gains in PvP? 'Hope it's not true; I wouldn't see the point...

Phil Tremblay
08-17-2015, 12:29 AM
I have a problem playing PVP matches. I can fight only bigger evo than me. This is not a problem but I always receive 10 points . And I always loose 20 when they beat me. Even my evo lvl is 40 and theirs is 45. Never happened to me in the previous PVP tournaments. What can be the reason?

I live exactly the same situation, I never have opponents with lower evo, always 6 to 12 total lvl higher and even more difference in player level ( I'm 80 and I fight 110-200), I win 10-13 and lose 20 75% of the time.

And platinum stars has nothing to do with bad level matching...

[K] Hugo
08-18-2015, 09:46 AM
Hey there, thank you all for your feedback, you are all raising interesting points.

On behalf of the development team, i'm intrigued by the few players here reporting that recently, they have been winning less points than they think they should.

Let me explain you how the point system works:

To determine how many points the 2 players of a PvP fight win, the game gives players a rating (a score).

This rating is based on many factors such as the number of pvp points currently, and also the 3 best mutants each players has in its collection.

The game look at all your game and basically says "ok, this players has 2312 pvp points, the 3 best mutants of his entire collection are Gold buck Maurice lvl28, Gold Oriax lvl28 and Platinum Apex lvl25. Lets use the matchmaking formula (that i cannot reveal) and boom, this player has a matchmaking score of XXXX."

When you win or lose, the game compares this score with the one of your opponent and decide to give you more or less points depending on the "difficulty" of the fight (judged by this matchmaking score).

If your score is way higher than the opponent's, its considered as an easy fight for you so you should not win much. If you lose, you lose big.

If your score is lower than the opponents, the fight is rather hard for you and you deserve to be rewarded if you manage to win it, so you get 20+ points, and dont lose much if you lose.


That is how it works since the beginning of the game, and it has not been changed recently.
_______________________

That said, I can read that some players have been recently "disapointed" by the number of PvP points won/lost:
For example, Phil:


I live exactly the same situation, I never have opponents with lower evo, always 6 to 12 total lvl higher and even more difference in player level ( I'm 80 and I fight 110-200), I win 10-13 and lose 20 75% of the time.

And platinum stars has nothing to do with bad level matching...

Based on how the matchmaking works (what i explained above), the only explanation i see is that the game considers you have better "top 3 mutants in your collection", which makes your matchmaking score higher than the opponent's score. As a consequence, you dont win much and lose big.

I confirm you that recently, we did not change anything on our side, and the team ran some tests these days to see if the point system was somehow "broken", and did not notice any issue.

That said, i am intrigued by your cases so let me know what you think now that you know how the point system works, and we will progress from there to find an explanation. :darwinsmile:

Kenneth Pocaigue
08-18-2015, 10:39 AM
FINALLY some insight! Thank you Hugo.. However... This type of system isn't rewarding to more developed players.. Namely, the part where credit is dependent on the Mutant Collection. This requires far more effort from a player that has already invested Loads of it into the game just to keep up with players that are less invested... Theoretically it makes sense... a little too much sense. So much that, it makes sense to not spend anything or to really invest anything into the game as that makes it harder to keep up.. Which really sucks because I actually believe that this is a game worth growing.. As a fame 132 Player with a meager Level 40 Evolution Center, I find it disheartening that my expansive collection of mutants is ultimately my downfall in the one aspect of the game I actually found to be dynamic and strategically diverse. With that being said, I honestly have no real clue what to change about the Matchmaking.. Just really sucks when you seek out opponents basing yourself on Star rating and Greater Evo sums, only to find out that even though you are at a complete disadvantage against them, there's a huge possibility that you still have better mutants in your box and are due less than they.. I think skipping with the option to choose more or less difficulty in your opponents would be nice..


The game look at all your game and basically says "ok, this players has 2312 pvp points, the 3 best mutants of his entire collection are Gold buck Maurice lvl28, Gold Oriax lvl28 and Platinum Apex lvl25.

Oriax comes in gold?

[K] Hugo
08-18-2015, 10:53 AM
This type of system isn't rewarding to more developed players.. Namely, the part where credit is dependent on the Mutant Collection. This requires far more effort from a player that has already invested Loads of it into the game just to keep up with players that are less invested

Thanks for your feedback. I dont understand entirely what you mean, can you please detail?

On a side note, I (and the team) agree that there is room for improvement on the PvP system and that's one of things the team is thinking about currently.

NB: Gold Oriax was a bad example, just wanted to illustrate.

Kenneth Pocaigue
08-18-2015, 12:22 PM
The game look at all your game and basically says "ok, this players has 2312 pvp points, the 3 best mutants of his entire collection are Gold buck Maurice lvl28, Gold Oriax lvl28 and Platinum Apex lvl25. Lets use the matchmaking formula (that i cannot reveal) and boom, this player has a matchmaking score of XXXX."

What this implies is that the game takes into account several things when deciding how much points a player can win IF they win against any given opponent.
(1) Static MMR = Points earned throughout the season.
(2) Top 3 mutants from Overall Collection. Presumably decided by (A) Elite Star Rating, (B) Player Evolution Center, (C) Experience invested, (D) Mutant Specific ID **Conjecture at the moment**
(3) Hidden MMR = Player rating based off of a combination of the previous.

The formula is unknown to me so I won't try to decipher it, but basically it means that the more mutants we have, the higher that hidden MMR gets. Why? Well if 3 best meant 3 Highest evo then My matches should look like this
Ken: (A:40, B:40, C:40) vs Opponent (A:45, B:45, C:45) in which case I should definitely win more points right? This doesn't actually happen in PvP.

Well it does take into account the Elite star rating.. lets go back now..
Ken (Plat:40, Plat:40, Gold:40) vs Opponent(Plat:45, Plat:45, Gold:45) in which case.. I should again.. win more points right? Since technically the opponent has the better **Best 3** mutants? except.. no.. It doesn't... Still get less points.. I'll get 15 IF I am lucky...

So what could possibly be my downfall here? Probably my big collection of mutants afforded through real money.. Since I am a player and actually play the game... I have quite a "few" mutants at my max evo or near max.. a hefty majority are gold star mutants. So we can totally assume that my opponent had ONLY two platinum mutants because I won less than 20 points because the game thought it wasn't challenging to me.. (5 evo difference, factoring Orbs and abilities... yeah.. wasn't a challenge at all.. *sarcasm*) SO what did it? I have less evo, but essentially the same number of platinum... What makes my level 40 mutants "better" then their level 45 "Best" mutants? I literally only have 2 Platinum mutants... and after reading the above.. I doubt I will make anymore.. My guess is Mutant ID... which I have a LOT of.. I have a huge collection of mutants... not just have them... Have them in Gold... and near or at max level.. Or is there something I overlooked?

[K] Hugo
08-18-2015, 01:41 PM
Well it all makes sense, except that I have been confirmed by the game designer himself that the collection has zero impact on the rating (mmr) of the player. MMR does not increase with the number/strengh of creatures of your collection, It's not even in the formula.

3 mutants, thats all is taking into account. That is why for me the only possibility is that what you consider as your best mutants is different for what the game considers as your best mutants.

Or we are facing something deeper, but again the tests ran by the team show no problem :/

Kenneth Pocaigue
08-18-2015, 04:07 PM
Well what I mean by my collection being the bigger factor is that... I cannot tell what is in my opponents collection.. but basing myself on what I own, there is more chances of my collection holding a mutant with a higher value than my opponent. Because if it were to follow the criteria you mentioned then I should definitely be winning more points as the mutants I literally ONLY have 2 platinum mutants in my entire collection and yet I win much less points than I should from a higher evo opponent that has at least two platinum mutants in theirs. If specific mutants don't have their own specific values that influence the matchmaking equation, then theoretically I should be winning more from higher leveled opponents with as many Platinums, or possibly even more than so.. but that isn't the case... My usual winning percentage would be around 95% of attacks and that would be enough to sustain GM tier by the end of season regardless of losses considering my choice of PvP targets. No opponent equal or lesser would fall into my attack spree, and I don't take revenge if they attacked me either. My Gripe is that the game selects the "3 Best" out of your entire collection, so naturally those with a bigger collection and have heavily invested in that collection is punished in PvP by losing out on the ability to effectively farm same evo/MMR opponents and even some that are greater.. I'm currently having this particular problem.. I am forced to struggle much more because I have to seek out stronger opponents, which is hard in its own right.. I have to Seek out higher star ratings, which is hard because not everyone puts their highest Elite in defense so I really can't tell.. and finally I basically have to guess on whether my opponents is even worth all that trouble and a tag because there is a high possibility that I will lose due to my evo and stat disadvantage (Orbs being percentage based makes them scale much harder with higher levels). So I have to strategise incessantly at every single possible opponent after spending several million credits just to find them... but even with all that, the matchmaking algorithm may just decide that My "3 best" is still better than theirs effectively rewarding me with less than that +20 or possibly losing 20 points... 5 evo is the safest I have found, winning/losing 10-15 points... anything less I face a Greater RISK for LESSER Rewards.. although I will admit that some occasions I win 30+ points from someone 3 levels higher.. but they usually run 3 plats.. in which case I only have 2..

Grim Jack
08-20-2015, 06:32 AM
Speaking strictly to matchmaking, what if the software took the MMR then found an opponent based on a +/- X of attackers EVO?

Something similar to an MMO that has an area where PKing is legal. The deeper you go into that area, the greater the +/- is. That margin could be based on your rank. For example:

If my MMR is 1000 and my rank is 10,000, the +/- would be looking for an opponent whose EVO was +/- 5. Where my rank was 9000, +/- 6; 8000, +/-7; 7000+/- 8 etc. until 3000 where the +/- might jump to 15, then 2500 +/- 20; 2000 +/- 25; 1500 +/- 30; 1000 +/- 40, 500 +/- 50; top 100 unlimited +/-.

I've put no serious thought into the numbers, they're just to show my meaning.

My second idea stems off from DanandJeanine Lowe's idea of being able to choose from 3 possible opponents. Along with the 3 options, could you display the number of points to be won from each? Or perhaps categorize them into A- 10 points, B- 11+ points, C- 25+ points, or some other indication of the 'risk' you're taking when choosing your opponent. Or maybe just 'even', 'high', 'highest'. With this method, those wanting harder opponents with greater reward would be satisfied, and those looking for a more even fight might be satisfied as well.

Nio Bran
08-20-2015, 12:50 PM
To all pp who really want to know how pvp point work .let me keep it short

If you win a guy with higher evo u will win 20 point (the lack is about 10 lv)
If u win to a guy with lower evo u will win 10
Win to a guy with same evo 15 Point
(All same with defend team)
If u win to a guy with much higher evo than u 20lv+. the amount point u win will be crazy from 100+ .it could be 5000 if the lack of lv is too hight
Trust me i fight pvp 100 time a day i know it

xucthclu
08-21-2015, 01:50 PM
Not even sure what to say. Despites having a reactor gold star Star Trooper, an army Goliath, an Oriax, reactor Captain Peace among few of the recently bred-out gold star mutants, I still am rather heavily dependent on tag team attacks since most of the matches are quite higher in levelsum than my mutants.

On a side note, curse the Cerberi I got when trying to breed for a gold Zombat, it would probably change the odds a tad in my favor if it was successful.

Clint
08-21-2015, 05:53 PM
I am having a similar problem, from previously always finishing PVP in the top 1% and facing similar matched evo's (evo 35) now however after creating 2 platinum mutants I am always matched with evo's alot higher and only win 10 points for them to get revenge and easily beat me due to their higher evo and get 20. I don't see how this is fair. Surely evo means more of an advantage than having 2 platinum mutants, one being enforcer which I don't even use. If this is not fixed I will be deleting my platinum mutants and requesting a refund for the gold I bought for gold stars, orbs, platinum star etc

Kenneth Pocaigue
08-21-2015, 06:21 PM
Deleting your hard earned platinum mutant is a waste of an expense.. as a player, the only way we can actually feel better about the loss of our time/resources to the feature in regards to PvP is just wait.. wait till the rest of the player base decides to start putting in some effort to make those platinum mutants.. But how long will that take? definitely not days.. because platinum has been out for a while.. weeks? the updates to platinum mutants seem to come around every 2 or so weeks.. Months? Probably safest bet is several months or when they finally decide to "release" platinum X27, Britany, Buranka, and Tengu.. thats where PvP people will flock to the shops to get their hands on those coveted PvP worthy mutants.. But for now.. if you have 1 or 2 platinum mutants.. just stop making more.. and wait till the world catches up.. If they even decide to

Clint
08-22-2015, 11:38 PM
I will not delete the platinum mutants because it is alot of effort to obtain them. I bred platinum mutants to give me an edge in the pvp however it seems to have had the opposite effect. PVP should be based on evo and evo alone, If I face a similar evo then they have had the same opportunity as myself to gain mutants upgrade them to gold, etc. Otherwise I might as well only have the 3 mutants in my defence team on my rooftop with loads of mythic non starred mutants for credits to up my evo since you seem to be hugely disadvantaged in PVP if you actually collect different mutants and upgrade them.

[K] Hugo
08-24-2015, 09:27 AM
Hey Clint, looks like you missed my explanation on the previous page. There is no problem with the fact of collecting. The game takes only into account your 3 very best mutant. Please find my explanation here: http://forums.kobojo.com/showthread.php?7341-Matchmaking-in-the-PvP-Share-your-thoughts!&p=43419&viewfull=1#post43419


But to all of you guys, thank you for your feedback on this situation and for your suggestions of improvements.
I confirm you again that the team is well aware that things can be improved regarding the matchmaking, and it is one of its upcoming important plans to make a better PvP.

Feel free to keep discussing and provide valuable ideas/feedbacks, have a great day in the arena!

Kenneth Pocaigue
08-26-2015, 07:38 AM
Hugo;43694']Hey Clint, looks like you missed my explanation on the previous page. There is no problem with the fact of collecting. The game takes only into account your 3 very best mutant. Please find my explanation here: http://forums.kobojo.com/showthread.php?7341-Matchmaking-in-the-PvP-Share-your-thoughts!&p=43419&viewfull=1#post43419


But to all of you guys, thank you for your feedback on this situation and for your suggestions of improvements.
I confirm you again that the team is well aware that things can be improved regarding the matchmaking, and it is one of its upcoming important plans to make a better PvP.

Feel free to keep discussing and provide valuable ideas/feedbacks, have a great day in the arena!

What happens when you have more than 3 at the highest elite form and max Evo? Nothing? It doesnt take into account rarity or any kind of specific value? Because in that case there is no problem expanding your collection.. but the problem will still lie in the progression with your game.. which Having put in MORE effort to OBTAIN stronger Mutants increases the difficulty of PvP progression.. Why? Because the game then decides that we have all these GREAT things and that we SHOULD win the match because of all those combined factors... so WE as the harder worked player will lose MORE points and receive LESS from others who HAVE LESS... Regardless if their EVO is higher (at least to a degree)... its not easy beating Higher evo players... especially with Orbs now available.. What makes it even more frustrating is when you cant tell how many Platinums they have in their repertoire, yet this one particular feature makes the biggest impact.. Winning 10 off an opponent that has 5 more evo than you do is disheartening.. Having to do it repeatedly JUST to make tiered rewards is just plain stupid.. But it isnt a fault in the game design... nope.. its a fault in player perspective... OUR own fault for wanting to aspire towards BEING greater... and because we step higher than others for the sake of our own game progression.. Because we HAVE MORE, we are punished...

John MacDonald
08-27-2015, 07:20 PM
I have to admit to being a little puzzled by the matchmaking.

I have 2 platinum mutants. Neither are particularly good PVP mutants and, in fact, I never use them. I am EVO 31 and facing EVO 32 rarely, EVO 33 most commonly and EVO 34-35. When I win, I get few points. When I lose, I lose a lot of points.

So I'm facing teams with higher level EVO, mutants comparable to mine and winning very little.

I think the system needs to be tweaked. Here's how I would do it:

1) Assign a 'value' to a mutant based upon how much damage it does within a single speed pass of 10. This means that 3.33 mutants would divide their total damage by 3 while a(say) speed 12.5 mutant would multiply their damage by 1.25.

Take this value, then multiply it by their health.

With this value, add 10% per area-effect attack and add another 10% if they have diametrically opposed genes, subtract 10% if they have the same gene.

This creates their 'Absolute value' to compare.

Howard
08-27-2015, 07:59 PM
Right now I am at about rank 80, and only players I am getting matched with are those around my rank. Only problem is all of them are lower evo (some rather too significantly; I am evo 86, and some are evo 30). I am stuck at this rank as even though they are easy wins, I have to put in a lot of time and effort to go up in the ranking. To go up even 1 rank, I need to farm 10 wins minimum.

It is good that the system helps lower evo players reach higher tiers in points, but at the same time, it hinders your higher level ones. Isn't the point of the game to get stronger, so you can be on top, instead of staying at evo 40 so you can be in the top 100 easily.

Kenneth Pocaigue
08-28-2015, 10:56 AM
Even at Evo 41 here... climbing is nearly impossible without having to commit far more time and effort into PvP than the average person who has yet to apply their free platinum.. The reason why you are matched with lesser evo people in the top 100 is probably because everyone that has more and can give you more points are simply content with just making reward tiers due to the nature of ladder climbing.. Its retarded how hard it is to climb with just two platinums.. I've only done about 37 attacks this season.... no need for that gold star.. no real desire to try and make top 100.. No real desire to climb a steep and muddy hill for nothing more than bragging rights.. No sense in punishing yourself for a title that no one can see.. Disparity issues isn't the only thing higher evo players need to worry about.. More effort is effectively a detriment to PvP scene now that such an expensive upgrade has been implemented..

At least when we had spread attacks in PvP, we still had a chance to climb efficiently.. Click-Tag-Win days was stupid... but those days, disparity issues were negligible to the higher evo because they could still dedicate a team to mitigate the damage and win off evo difference alone. never seen anyone lose more than 20 points.. and that can easily be made up in two attacks..

kittymeow1234567
08-30-2015, 07:35 AM
yes I agree with this comment this was my same complaint.

Jack Jones
09-07-2015, 08:43 PM
Hugo your explanation is a load of BS....... it seems that spending money on the game is detrimental in pvp. Everyone DO NOT BUY PLAT STARS IT WILL RUIN YOUR PVP. Just hit someone with more points than me and higher evo and i won 10 points. Kobojo are totally useless at anything apart from taking money. Sort the point system out cos this never happened in the past........... or do as you lot usually do and ignore your customers and treat them like shit.

John MacDonald
09-09-2015, 03:29 PM
Hugo your explanation is a load of BS....... it seems that spending money on the game is detrimental in pvp. Everyone DO NOT BUY PLAT STARS IT WILL RUIN YOUR PVP. Just hit someone with more points than me and higher evo and i won 10 points. Kobojo are totally useless at anything apart from taking money. Sort the point system out cos this never happened in the past........... or do as you lot usually do and ignore your customers and treat them like shit.


Jack - It's just a game.

I'm in the same boat as you, however. I recently fought my way to Elites only to find myself dropping 3% overnight.

Why? Because people with EVOs higher than me are fighting me, winning easily and then taking multiple points while plummeting me down 20 points.

I just shrug. It'll change in a few months time as this sort of thing can't continue.

But yes - I would agree that people shouldn't invest in platinum stars at this moment. The mutants who can get platinum stars aren't so great that they're worth the trade-off of never getting in the top 1% ever again.

It used to be that a single crash was a shrug from me and I'd move on. Now, if I crash two fights in a row, I need to win 4 fights in a row just to break even, all against people with higher EVOs and comparable mutants, who will then revenge back and probably beat me and drop me another 20 points.

Don't let it get you angry. Just make your point, suggest that they change the system(I made a suggestion and included how I would handle it mathematically for the programmers) and then either continue to fight in the PvP events or don't.

I'm going to simply treat this like I did with Brittney/Buranka and not PvP.

Jack Jones
09-09-2015, 09:33 PM
John read some of hugo's replies on this thread as to point scoring in pvp...... higher evo, more points should mean i get something but no i just got 10 points. All hugo does is feed players BS and look how wonderful kobojo is. The biggest problem seems to be if you get platinium mutants you will suffer in pvp because of this, if you have a high evo you will suffer because of this, if you spend money on this game YOU WILL SUFFER. Now i dare a koblowjo employee to come on here and PROVE me wrong...... not just say 'no you are wrong but for reasons xyz we cannot tell you why' I tried this before with the odds on winning stuff on the slots....... bottled that one as well. If you don't try to beat them to death with it they just ignore you...... like my last few posts.

John MacDonald
09-10-2015, 10:22 PM
John read some of hugo's replies on this thread as to point scoring in pvp...... higher evo, more points should mean i get something but no i just got 10 points. All hugo does is feed players BS and look how wonderful kobojo is. The biggest problem seems to be if you get platinium mutants you will suffer in pvp because of this, if you have a high evo you will suffer because of this, if you spend money on this game YOU WILL SUFFER. Now i dare a koblowjo employee to come on here and PROVE me wrong...... not just say 'no you are wrong but for reasons xyz we cannot tell you why' I tried this before with the odds on winning stuff on the slots....... bottled that one as well. If you don't try to beat them to death with it they just ignore you...... like my last few posts.

Well, the platinum stars aren't great at the moment. I'm facing higher evos and getting 10 points. They revenge and knock 20 off of me.

I'm currently in Elites, but that'll change overnight when people fight back. I'll lose about twice what I earned today if they all revenge.

The thing is - Don't let it get to you. Maybe Kobojo ignores it and maybe they don't. Even if they do, it will be months before you see anything simply because they have to test code and see what happens. Heck - Look at the Buranka/Brittney situation. It took months to resolve that and they simply switched off spread attacks in tags in PvP.

Just assume they aren't ignoring you and will do something. You'll feel better. :) Chances are they will, but it will be some time before we see a change.

Jack Jones
09-11-2015, 09:47 PM
John i do not wish to insult you, but the brit/buranka problem...... what a joke, kobojo milked that for as long as they could, THAT WAS WHY IT TOOK SO LONG....... They could see the problem and how it affected the game, what did they do................ hmmmmmmmmmm.......... keep on re re re releasing brit and buranka for gold, milked it and milked it for months. All kobojo do is look after profits. I will get no official response to my questions because they know i am right, bunch on money grabbing A-holes and they can bar me from here if they so wish cos it will only go to show how right i am.

John MacDonald
09-13-2015, 09:12 PM
On a completely separate note: Kobojo, I'm certain you've noticed that there are currently less than 300, 000 players in PvP. How do I know? Because my global rank was 3001 and I was still in the 2% zone.

In its heyday, there were over 800, 000 players in PvP. How do I know? Because my global rank was under 8000 and I was in the top 1%. That's a dropoff of over half of your PvP players. You'll know these numbers better than I.

There are several reasons this could be. That isn't really what's important, however.

As numbers dwindle, what once was merely a mild problem has become more severe. The cheaters are taking up a very significant number of the top prizes. When cheaters start to approach even half a percent of the active game membership, that slices the amount for legitimate players down even more significantly. Please consider either banning all people running script mods(You can clearly tell in your logs if that happens) or adding a 100 times their number in bots for PvP. If there are 1000 people running script mods, in order to make the 1% work, you'd have to add 100, 000 bots in PvP to counteract them. That will let you keep the cheaters here but render their overall effect negligible.

Either one would be fine.

Azius
09-19-2015, 01:25 PM
Hi.i think the matchmaking is pretty good, i usually win with about 27 points,but I think that it should be based on evo levels and stars, beacause sometimes I face people who have ridiculously high total levels.my combined total is 69, and sometimes I face a total of 115, all gold stars. and most of the time I face someone with one gold mutant, and then two non gold mutants which are also very powerful eg. uncle sam and lois xvii.it's pretty misleading.but overall the matching up is pretty good.

Jeff Zivkovic
10-31-2015, 07:27 PM
Hello. I've recently come to this game after leaving, "Tyrant" because this game is more fun. Tyrant, however, has a far more sensible PvP system. Players get a limited number of attacks, just like this game does with campaign passes. If you lose an attack, you gain about 5 tournament points. If you win an attack, you gain about 100. Actually, a little more than 100, depending on how badly you beat your opponent. So you never LOSE points. In Mutants, you often lose points, which is like a punishment for being active and participating in the tournament.

Why does this game give point penalties to stronger players? That's the craziest system I've seen in any game so far! There should be incentive FOR building your team and making Platinum mutants, not an incentive AGAINST that. I understand if you want to encourage new players to join the game. The solution for that is to offer more tiers, and a larger variety of rewards.

Finally, matchmaking should only be based on your current rank within the current tournament. At first, matches will be lopsided, but then they'll level out as the strongest players climb the ladder. Which is how it should be. Give the title to the most dedicated, hardest working, or highest-paying players. Not to the noobs who happened to figure out the system quickly.